King David is my 99th great grandfather

Started by Mike Stangel on Wednesday, May 2, 2018
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5/2/2018 at 9:44 AM

Here's the link to the path:

I will try to find where it goes awry but I suspect our fine curators will find it before I can. :-)

5/2/2018 at 12:16 PM

Mike Stangel you might be off the hook closer in.

I do not yet see a source to support
Joseph Cornelius Carmichael as son of John Carmichael, 1st Earl of Hyndford


5/2/2018 at 12:47 PM

The pedigree looks like a “submission” only.

Should we disconnect from parents & lock relationships?

"Pedigree Resource File," database, FamilySearch ( : accessed 2 May 2018), entry for Joseph Cornelius /Carmichael/, cites sources; "Summers Family" file (2:2:2:MMDJ-3VC), submitted 2 August 2015 by [identity withheld for privacy].

5/2/2018 at 1:28 PM

Oy.. the Carmichaels are my connection to about half of the big tree. Let me do a little more research on this before I give them up. :-)

5/2/2018 at 1:39 PM

I thought it might be an "ouchie.".

Cornelius might be a generation, even 2, off. The Earl died "around 1710" at age 72, and the 1702 birth date for Cornelius looks OK.

5/2/2018 at 1:44 PM

I do believe you're correct. Guess I'll return this kilt... :-D

5/2/2018 at 1:49 PM

..but what's interesting about this, is you're evidently telling me that the line from King David all the way down to John Carmichael, 1st Earl of Hyndford is correct?

5/2/2018 at 2:14 PM

I locked relationships for your Carmichael “tree top.” But don’t be trading in for liederhosen, the chances he wasn’t Scots seem remote.

Some Scots trees seem to connect to the exilarchs via medieval Armenian royalty, which is apparently an obscurity to de tangle. So we’ll need many more of these tests to King David. I already corrected a time traveler in my tree!

5/2/2018 at 2:32 PM

John Carmichael, 1st Earl of Hyndford is King David's 90th great grandson.

Looks like Isabella I Blois, queen of Jerusalem & Cyprus is a connector

5/2/2018 at 2:35 PM

Repost: in my path to King David (no longer direct, yay!) Beatriz Enríquez de Mendoza, Marquesa de Villanueva del Fresno is the connector.

5/2/2018 at 3:03 PM

Take a look closer to David. Atalya seems an unlikely connection.

5/2/2018 at 3:31 PM

She might be a gen off & should be same as Ahio . ??

(I have not yet looked for Sargon’s wife)

5/2/2018 at 3:35 PM Lists Atalya as wife, and she is Sourced, book in her profile (parents unclear from the snippet). There’s an article in the book that apparently discusses Sargon’s wives.

5/2/2018 at 3:40 PM

I read Ahio as a male name, not a female, in the citation

5/2/2018 at 3:42 PM

Here’s the article as source for Atalya

5/2/2018 at 3:52 PM

She’s an archeological discovery. Her identity and relationships are the subject for various theories. “I still consider a ‘Canaanite’ origin of Yaba and Atalya at least possible. Whether the two queens were really associated with the royal house of Judah is uncertain, and an Israelite or Phoenician origin should be considered as well.” (Eckhart Frahm, “Family Matters: Psychohistorical Reflections on Sennacherib and His Times” in Sennacherib at the Gates of Jerusalem: Story, History and Historiography, eds. Isaac Kalimi & Seth Richardson (2014), p. 188.

5/2/2018 at 3:53 PM

I do not see that Atalya, Chief consort of Sargon ll, has parents specifically identified in this article, but the case seems good that she was a high rank woman of Judah.

5/2/2018 at 3:59 PM

The argument was made against Atalya as being of Israel (not status - y enough for Sargon).

Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן Your assistance warranted.

5/2/2018 at 4:28 PM

The easiest place to look for bad connections to King David is to look for connections to "foreign" trees. These are seams where forgeries and leaps of faith are most likely to happen.

"high rank woman" does not translate into "known parents, connect here".

5/3/2018 at 1:59 AM

Thank you Justin Durand for the MP. I was prepared to cut but not to curate.

5/3/2018 at 2:01 AM

I also think Ahio . is misidentified / misnamed but I can’t prove it, so I do hope someone who knows better can.

5/3/2018 at 8:35 PM

There cant be any conection with any jewish ancester prior to 70 c.e. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem they destroyed all records.

5/3/2018 at 9:02 PM

Hi Daniel, there were prominent Jewish families in Baghdad who claimed descent from the family King David. Some of those genealogies are on Geni. Many experts doubt they are quite as continuous as they've been made to appear, but they have some devout defenders.

There seems to be a few generations missing between these
3 generations in only 572 years

Born 624 Yazdgerd III, Shah of Persia
his son (no dates) Yazid Khair -Sassaniah Parsi
his grandson (no dates) Maharaja Shahriar Salman Sasaniah -Persia
his great grandson (Born 1200) Puang Bolon Raja Nagur Damanik, Sumatera

Also 100 years between spouses
Raja Nagur 26 Damanik, Sumatera born 1100
Puang Bolon Raja Nagur Damanik, Sumatera born 1200

This person born 1200 Puang Bolon Raja Nagur Damanik, Sumatera has a child born 1100 Raja Nagur 26 Damanik, Sumatera

5/4/2018 at 12:32 PM

I'm looking at a screenshot I made, several years ago, that shows King David as my 80th GGF. Now, he's coming up as my 31st GA's ex-husband's 4th cousin 19X's husband.

So, I started tracing back & found that Simeon, son of Judah, was missing from his father's profile. Checking Revisions, the only reference to Simeon was a change to his parents, by Justin, on 12/26/11.

Clicking on Simeon brought me to his profile with his father, Judah. Apparently, there are duplicate profiles for Judah, but I don't see how Simeon was deleted without it being noted in Revisions.

Profiles are:

Simeon...@Simeon .

Judah (1)...@Judah

Judah (2)...@https/Judah

5/4/2018 at 1:24 PM

Linda, that far back the likely meaning is that I chose a set of parents and either merged duplicates, or cut them off if they weren't duplicates. The Revisions history has gotten better over time but it can still be a puzzle to figure out what happened.

It takes an intensive amount of work to disentangle partially merged lines like these. People have added duplicates. They've merged the ones they could merge and left the rest for someone else to deal with. These days, we don't want hundreds of duplicates being added to the tree and making work. The best thing to do is add them to the Medieval Duplicates project, and let curators deal with deleting them.

5/9/2018 at 5:04 PM

Ok, this thread made me interested, so I gave this a try.

I am happy to say there are two levels of indirection here, at least. I'm a little concerned that there seems to have been a Taylor who was wired into Spanish nobility however. That seems a little unusual for the time?

5/10/2018 at 1:13 AM

Can you post the suspect links in the path ?

5/10/2018 at 1:17 AM

This is the connector of English landed gentry to Spanish

As a result of his role in the campaign, Blount married Donna Sancha de Ayála, the daughter of Don Diego Gomez, who held high office in Toledo, by his wife, Donna Inez de Ayála. Blount's new wife was also a niece of Pero López de Ayala.

Donna Sancha appears to have first come to England in attendance on Constantia, the elder daughter of Peter of Castile, whom John of Gaunt married in 1372. .... etc.

Sancha Blount, Lady de Ayala

5/10/2018 at 1:27 AM
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