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Yves (II) de Nesle - More complications

Started by Private User on Thursday, April 26, 2018
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Private User
4/26/2018 at 7:24 AM

This is a sketchy tree I created per MedLands, just immediate known ancestors.

The problems start immediately,as he has a duplicate with all sorts of crazy information: Yves II "le Vieux" de Nesle, comte de Soissons

To begin with he's enumerated as III, not II, and his wife is given as "Isabeau", no other information.
Parents are given as Raoul "II" (should be I) and "Ramtrude d'Eu" instead of Rainurde Nn.
He should be the oldest, and his brothers should be Dreux, Raoul (II), Renaud(?), and Thierry (Archdeacon at Cambrai), respectively.
Jean I, comte de Soissons is out of place, should be the son of Raoul II, not Raoul I (see "About" linking him with the legendary "Blondel" of the Third Crusade).
Has a duplicate Jean de Nesle, châtelain de Bruges with correct dates.
"Siblings" are hack-hashed with his children.

Getting back to Raoul I, the tree from here takes off into purest fantasy. Soissons came into the family through Raoul's *mother* (an unnamed daughter of Guillaume ds Soissons and wife Adela). His father was the first (known) Yves de Nesle.

"Lothaire de Nesle" is bogus. "Hortense de Coucy" is bogus. Everything above them is somebody's heavy-duty pot dream. It bears *absolutely no* resemblance to any documented facts.

Private User
4/27/2018 at 7:26 AM

At least as far as the Nesle line is concerned....

Dreux de Coucy, Seigneur de Boves
MedLands verifies the existence of a Dreux/Drogo de Boves, but he was the son of a Hugues who *claimed* possession of Boves, not a Robert anybody. (Hugues seems to have done a land grab when no one was looking.)

No unequivocal record exists of any siblings of Dreux, and his wife's name is unknown.

Records exist for four children: Enguerrand (I), Robert, Anseau, and Mathilde. There seems to be some confusion as to whether Robert or Anseau was the second son, which of the two was a cleric, and which of them fathered Robert de Cais. (A charter dated 28 Nov 1131 explicitly states that Anseau was the cleric and Raoul was the third son, and that Robert was the son of Anseau(!). Same charter contains all that we know of Mathilde, i.e. that she was their sister.) By the way, said charter refers to Enguerrand as "Ingelrannus de Fara" (Enguerrand de la Fere - does that make anybody jump? It should!)

Well, anyway, no daughter Hortense, and no proof that Dreux' wife was Adele de Crepy.

"Lothaire de Nesle" appears to be completely Fictional.

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