Psychiatric / Mental disorders

Started by Mikko Laakso on Friday, March 30, 2018
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3/30/2018 at 8:16 PM

I think there should be a project, and subprojects, for psychiatric / mental disorders.

ICD codes starting with F below.

If I had to pick up a psychiatric condition which is highly lethal, then it would be anorexia nervosa. And bulimia, and other eating disorders. They kill maybe 20% of the people suffering from those.

Also, some people who have committed suicide, but not all, have a history of depression.

Somebody may be famous for being neurotic. Or paranoid. While the latter two are less likely to kill you, I might find "Neurotic people" interesting (Woody Allen comes first).

But if somebody suffered from depression, then killed himself, I think both diagnoses are valid and justified.

If somebody killed, or got killed due to romantic issues, would it be possible to combine these with "Died due to broken heart?"

http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/F01-F99

3/31/2018 at 2:13 AM

It would make an interesting portal. I believe other related projects already existing include hoarders and famous eccentrics. There might be more.

We could broaden the definition of Died due to broken heart I think.

Would cause of death for anorexia nervosa be “starvation” with AN as a secondary cause ?

You like the ICD 10 codes more than DSM V?

I think the way to approach this is to
make an index project, find and list the existing projects, and then see how it would intersect with COD.

Private User
3/31/2018 at 8:46 AM
3/31/2018 at 11:07 AM

Thank you Jeanette ! How’s your Latin for adding the medical terminology in that language ? Mine is a year in middle school so grammar ...

Private User
3/31/2018 at 11:37 PM

Erica Howton I 'updated' the project-page a bit and will see if I can add more 'mental disorders'. We need to use the protocol-book of psyciatrics, who agreed on an international base who should be treated and who not and with wich chemicals to stay 'under control'. But to my own experience they do not know ALL the origins of rumour and instability, for instance a lack of vitamine B12 and D are now-a-days well known causes of a not-so-happy life-time-period... Especially for people like me who have very little pigment and are begifted with some more knowledge that the average people.

4/1/2018 at 12:21 AM

Also I found an existing project

https://www.geni.com/projects/Insanity-and-Mental-Illness/28395

With a more historic focus. So far I think the two should be related but separate.

That would resolve a temptation to do “psychohistory” like retrospectively diagnosing famous people (wasn’t Freud guilty of doing that ?)

Private User
4/1/2018 at 10:53 PM
Private User
4/1/2018 at 11:44 PM

Erica Howton I have seen the project-page, but that is one of a kind with lots of text you can better find in WikiPedia to my opinion and just a brave, short list of what in the English language is known about some diseases. So, I think, we must unite and find a logical frame for this important historical issue and maybe we do right to start with some sort of an index on people in history who where thought to be ill in their minds... I started already a short list on the Dutch page, but my intention is/was to expand the information in some local, national, continental and/or even global project-pages for readers who just start in Geni and those who are already known with the work on this co-operative, col-laborate platform where we work together on the same purpose: peace & understanding among people of different minds & languages...

4/1/2018 at 11:54 PM

I read your Dutch Page in google Translate, a very nice start for a “notables with mental illness” list. Changing treatment over time was also interesting.

Private User
4/3/2018 at 3:28 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder

This might be a good starting point to develop a 'taxonomy' for old & new project-pages in Geni about this difficult issue... Maybe we should start with a 'general, global' list with 'famous' persons known to suffer from a mental disease and see what needs a geo-grafical, chronological a/o institutional focus. What do you think, Erica Howton

4/3/2018 at 11:47 AM

Three points:

i) Anorexia is the single most lethal psychiatric disorder. Not depression, not schizophrenia. But anorexia (and bulimia) kills some 20% of the people who have it. It's got not so much to do with fashion or broken hearts, but the reasons are deep within.

And perhaps 50% of the patents never totally recover.

I have had an interesting approach to people with anorexia who have been my patients. Once I had this case who had been in involuntary hospital treatment for more than two years, and she would rather stay there than gain 6 kg. When the chief of the dept went to summer vacation, I made her do it.

So anorexia kills. It kills more people who have it than most cancers.

The most involuntary group of patients I have referred to involuntary treatment are people with anorexia. You can deal people with schizophrenia but not with people who have anorexia, unless they are my patients.

ii) This could maje a nice start for the project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_from_anorexia_nervosa

Private User
4/3/2018 at 1:52 PM

good idea to start with a international list of people killed suffering from Anorexia nervosa. Later we can divide it in more regional of national lists.

What I called 'the protocol-book of psychiatrics' is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/diagnostic_and_statistical_manual_of_...

4/3/2018 at 2:47 PM

I have already posted a link to an entire copy of DSM-5 to perhaps the dementia thread.

DSM-5 is the classification of psychiatric diseases in USA while ICD-10 (by WHO) is used elsewhere.

4/3/2018 at 4:06 PM

Would AN fall under the larger category of Eating Disorders?

I believe as the killer Mikko pointed out it is, Anorexia Nervosa needs its own project.

4/3/2018 at 6:06 PM

Erica, it would.

Anorexia nervosa, Bulimia (nervosa), Binge eating disorder etc.

4/3/2018 at 8:00 PM

Would the larger category of eating disorders be better? AN, bulimia, etc as the underlying condition that caused (organ failure etc)

Private User
4/3/2018 at 11:54 PM

Erica Howton
Mikko Laakso

Let's start with : Suffering ANOREXIA Nervosa and put in ALL the profiles over the world we can find who are documented as suffering a/o dieing as a result of this 'mental disorder'. We only register their names as complete as possible, their 'live-data' and the country of origine. If possible we give them a link to a profile in the big tree and in their own profile-documentation we or rahter their own relatives can document as much as needed/known/public about the historical/gossip circumstances of the person involved.

In this way we gather experience with putting in also historical and not that known people and their mental diseases who had a difficult life and as I may presume lots of problems with their neighbourhood and friends
.

4/4/2018 at 8:17 AM

I think the most famous story in America is Karen Anne Carpenter

4/4/2018 at 3:03 PM

Fame has nothing to do with it.

Eating disorders may have something to do with fame and fashion, Princess Diana, Princess Victoria of Sweden, the heiress to the throne.

Eating disorders should be portrayed as lethal, and not being Kate Moss and scoring Johnny Depp.

My first interesting case comes from summer of 2011. On the ward where I worked, there was this patient who had been there for more than two years. And she would have rather stayed there for longer, than gain 7 kg. Up to 47 kg, which is not much given that she was kinda tall.

So, the chief of the ward went on a summer leave, and I had the entire ward on my own. This particular patient had signed a four-page agreement, and she had her own nurse for 24/7. But she did not gain weight.

So I called a meeting with her nurses, I tore apart the document, and granted her unsupervised outdoor permission. And quit the 24/7 nurse system. Then I said, "This isn't working. Help me help you." And she agreed to some extra calories per day. She would exercise a lot, pace quick in and around the hospital grounds, and I told her, "Good, muscle tissue weighs more than fat. So exercise. But you will gain weight."

Her weight rose, then stopped. One morning when she was on a scale, I was there, and tried her bladder. Hard as stone. She collected urine so she would weigh more. I poked it, "Like a football." Then I ordered that she will be given the strongest anti-diuretic at 5 AM, 6 AM, 7 AM and at 8 AM, when the patients were woken up. Let's see how she does. Wake her up three times before the wake up call. Hold that urine.

She got it, in three days I called it off.

Then she got her first period in years. I congratulated her.

But the weight gain stopped. Another meeting. Prior to that I had a tube brought to the room, as well as a text from the ICU, regarding the fluid which contains calories they give their patients who can't get the energy otherwise.

Again, I first congratulated her for what she has achieved. Then I, again, asked her to help me. And I said, "here's a tube. I'll put it to your stomach via your nose. Failing that, I put an i.v. for you, and here's a leaflet about it. And, if you puke or your weight does not reach 47, I'll have you tied up so that you can't puke or remove the i.v. But you will score weight. So, "help me help you." She realized I was not kidding, and agreed to more calories.

By the time, in just a month, the chief of the ward came back from his vacation, and she weighed 47,3 kg. I had already referred her to the outpatient psychiatry once the 47 kg was reached. But when she first went there, her weight was 36,6 kg. I know the people there, dorks. So, she stayed at the ward, and then the chief established a new program for her, and she started to lose weight again. He didn't get it.

Another case from an outpatient clinic. There was a patient, and he came to my appointment with his parents. I allowed him to tell me about his situation, and the thing with the people who have anorexia is that they suffer from anxiety if they eat. So once the patient had talked for about 10 minutes, then I just told him that "what's so cool about your anxiety? You have everything going well. What's making you anxiety so fucking special? That's your mother there! Your father! How about their anxiety? They are scared to death because of you, and you whine as a pussy. So, what makes the quality of your anxiety so special it supercedes everybody else's anxiety?"

He could not answer, but within a month he had gained 4 kg, and was happy about it.

And only later did I realize her mother in the room was shrink as well... I would never have done what I did, had I known that.

What this boils down to is anxiety. You have to outsource the caloric intake so that they don't feel the anxiety. That's the point of it. Chances are, deep within, they hope for it. My approach has served me well, but my other colleagues do not see the beauty of it.

Nothing I can do about their stupidity.

4/4/2018 at 3:08 PM

"You have to outsource the caloric intake so that they don't feel the anxiety..."

Nice!

4/4/2018 at 5:31 PM

Mental illness is a touchy subject:

Some people aren't going to be happy about a possible family history of mental illness being laid out for public consumption.

It'd need to be sourced properly, which might be OK for famous modern people, but can be trickier with ordinary folks (especially if it isn't part of the cause of death and recorded on a death certificate or inquest).

There is retroactive diagnosis, which leads to a slew of "did X have Y?"
http://autismmythbusters.com/general-public/famous-autistic-people/

Just a note of caution.

4/4/2018 at 6:02 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Hughes#Estate is an example.

“Psycho history” would suggest OCD, but I see that perhaps drug addiction was cause / effect / consequence? We would put his profile under “kidney failure” and “famous eccentrics” without access to a detailed coroners report.

For our own families I believe project membership approvals address privacy concerns.

Private User
4/5/2018 at 12:42 AM

In the same way we could develop global/continental/national/regional/lokal project-pages for other aspects of a not that general body & mind, like:

https://www.geni.com/projects/Suffering-TUBERCULOSIS-Netherlands/47780

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