Mary Ball Washington Descendants

Started by David Leff Clounch on Saturday, March 24, 2018
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3/24/2018 at 2:00 PM

Erica Howton asked me to start a discussion on Mary Ball and Sinah Ball so as to explain to medieval scholars and others what my concern is about Sinah Ball.

This also relates to Daniel McCarthy of Virginia, Sinah Ball's husband, and potentially Jacob McCarty of North Carolina, who is my ancestor.

It may take me a bit to properly explain my concern, so please bear with me and give me a change to explain.

First, why does the family care? Because Mary Ball was the mother of George Washington. And, she is descended from the Wentworth family. And she had a daughter Sinah (Sarah?) who married a Daniel McCarthy of Virginia. The McCarthy family is very famous, and descends from the ancient McCarthy family of Munster, Ireland, that goes back in mythology to 1700BC. Queen Elizabeth I made a McCarthy an Earl. After that line died out Charles II also made another McCarthy an Earl. This is why medieval scholars care about this family.

The problem in the lineage develops in the history of Virginia and North Carolina and the migration of the descendants. The family name changed from McCarthy to McCarty. And the McCarty's of Charlotte NC undoubtedly are somehow related to the McCarthy's of Virginia.

Problem is, the trail thins out to be terribly thin. My ancestor, Jacob McCarty, who was married to Mary Morrow, had a fathet Daniel, and a mother Sinah. Problem is, nobody knows if the Daniel is the Daniel of Virginia, or if Sinah is the the Sinah who is the daughter of Mary Ball Washington. This is claimed, but is not proven. I would love to find solid evidence it is true. And I am one of the researchers working on that. I have been to the North Carolina State Archives in Raleigh, NC, but have not yet found any substantiating linkages between the VA and NC family lines. I am not saying these do not exist. I am saying until the data is available the family should underclaim rather than overclaim.

Sadly, amateur genealogists become overzealous and overclaim.

So, I believe Mary Ball Washington had a Sinah Ball McCarthy daughter. I merely doubt she was the mother of the Jacob McCarty that married Mary Morrow and is my ancestor. There may have been other Sinah McCarty persons ion the colonies. But who were they?

Consequently, I was asking the mangers of the pages to "consider" removing the linkage until better evidence is developed. I am not adamant about this request, it is only an idea. Family members and page managers may actually object to the removal. My feeling is the decision should probably be up to a consensus of stakeholders. I, after all, am only one descendant, and someone may possess conclusive evidence to keep the linkage. But I have not seen this brought forth over the ten years I have been looking. But I don't know everything, either.

My fear is the linkage exists only because someone posted it on the internet, and it has been copied from site to site for years. If that is true, it is not very good genealogy.

Now, what do I believe about the McCarty family? Is the Daniel McCarthy of Virginia the father of Jacob McCarty of NC? Well, he was the father of somebody named Jacob, yes. But which Jacob? This is on rather thin ice too, and seems over-claimed without further evidence.

Yes, these McCartys, I believe, are related to the McCarthy family of Cork Ireland. They are Milesian in nature. My DNA proves that. But it is also very very broad. And it does not prove a direct lineal descent from the ruling clan of Munster. Medieval scholars may care about this issue because it is probable that the title or Earl ClanCarthy actually did arrive in America around 1693. One of the George's (George II?) restored the title. But in 1735 parliment blocked the restoration of the family fortune to any heirs.

My belief is Geni should contain linkages that are as solid as can possibly be established. I will continue to look into this and I hope all my cousins do so as well, until such time that we actually know the truth. Meanwhile geni.com is giving off what I think is flakey information.
So, we should perhaps re-consider.

Thanks,

3/24/2018 at 3:13 PM

Here is Sarah (Ball) McCarty on Geni

Sarah Barnes

3/24/2018 at 3:25 PM

Here is Sinah McCarty

3/24/2018 at 3:34 PM

Note from profile of Daniel McCarty, Sr., of North Carolina

"I haven't been able to validate that He is the son of Dennis McCarty at this time, or that he was married to Sinah Ball" [6, 8, 9, 10]

3/24/2018 at 3:36 PM

Re: My ancestor, Jacob McCarty, who was married to Mary Morrow, had a fathet Daniel, and a mother Sinah. Problem is, nobody knows if the Daniel is the Daniel of Virginia, or if Sinah is the the Sinah who is the daughter of Mary Ball Washington.

The wife showing for Daniel d 1791 is Agness ? Did he ever have a Sinah wife?

3/24/2018 at 3:46 PM

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1921443?seq=11#page_scan_tab_contents

Page 129

Daniel McCarty d abt 1792 m Sinah Ball only son Col Daniel McCarty

I’ll give the proper citation in the next post

3/24/2018 at 3:48 PM

The McCarthy Family

Arthur Leslie Keith
The William and Mary Quarterly
Vol. 2, No. 2 (Apr., 1922), pp. 119-132
Published by: Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture
DOI: 10.2307/1921443
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1921443

3/24/2018 at 5:57 PM

David Leff Clounch I’ve identified the problem with Daniel McCarty profiles. There was a bad merge a year or more ago & it piled on from there. It will take me a while longer to fix and I’ll post back when done. I believe your line is still unidentified in ancestry and will lock the relationships, and this will correct your false path. I’m sorry that it happened.

3/25/2018 at 12:11 PM

Thank you for looking into this so quickly.

Oh my, merges can get so mysterious.

Yes, William and Mary Quarterly refers to the Virginia branch of the family.

There are so many relatives, many had the same names. It gets very confusing. One of the problems is the Daniels apparently married multiple times.

There has been much internet discussion on the lineage of Jacob McCarty who lived in Charlotte NC area. All of us descendants are still looking conclusive evidence for the relationship to the other Jacob McCarty and other Daniel McCarthy. I would love to be connected to the Virginia McCarthy's. Alas, I fear "us Mary Morrow descendants" are all possibly tainted by claiming too much. Too much glamour? ;) I am hoping that someday DNA triangulation will help out, but it has not yet happened.

Anyway, searches now seem to follow my actual gateway ancestor instead of the Ball family. Thank you for that.

3/25/2018 at 12:21 PM

BTW, Erica, the tree has changed, and it seems perhaps there is a new person, Sinah Beale, who may have married two different Daniel McCarty's?

Wow. Fascinating.

If this holds true, then you and I are cousins, and have a MRCA in Richard Alleyne, of Chartley Manor.

We must take all of this with a grain of salt, of course. ;)
Cheers!

3/25/2018 at 1:52 PM

You’re seeing disentangling, and then I mess up with the Daniel McCarty’s again. And got distracted by the tragic story of Harry Black Heart Lee who seduced his McCarty wife’s sister.

3/25/2018 at 3:03 PM

Harry Black Heart Lee? Fascinating! Juicy! Revolutionary war drama that fits a Hollywood production. Who would have thought? ;)

I appreciate disentangling. I am seeing "entangling" take place on my wife's trail. I think entangling may grow faster than disentangling just due to the number of members.

3/25/2018 at 3:57 PM

Here is your Daniel McCarty, Sr., of North Carolina & Agness McCarty finally. The bad genealogy for them is all over the Internet, but the "relationship locking" curator tool should prevent it on Geni.

I was joking about Henry Lee lV's nickname. Here's the McCarty sister Elizabeth Storke

I now have to chase up yet another Sinah Ball, the one who married Thomas Beale.

Private User
12/21/2022 at 12:39 PM

Hi Erica, I'm glad that there is a responsive curator handling this profile! I have a correction and some further information.
The death date (and probably the place of death) listed here for @Daniel McCarty, Sr., of North Carolina (currently listed as 1791, Tyron (misspelling of TRYON), Lincoln, NC) is wrong. This Daniel's will was probated in 1786 in Richmond County, GA (the will has been posted in this profile.) Augusta, GA is the county seat of Richmond County. It is probable that Daniel was living in Georgia when he died. Either in Richmond County or in nearby Wilkes County where his widow, Agness was witness to a land sale for John McCarty. There is also an issue with mixing two Jacob McCartys: Jacob McCarty (husband of Catherine Standley/Stanley, son of Daniel Sr and the Jacob McCarty who married Mary Morrow (my line). I'll go to that profile to discuss further. Thanks!

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