Robert Harcourt - Timey-Wimey Mashup

Grandfather Sir Robert Harcourt was a Member of Parliament as well as a Knight of the Garter, but unfortunately he's Potholed along with the rest of the 15th century members. (Harcourts continued to show up in Parliament sporadically from the Stanton and other branches of the family.

Shaw's "Knights" records the following Harcourts:

Harcourt, John de, K.B. 1306, I. 113
Harcourt, Philip, Kt. 1660, II. 227
Harecourt, Richard, K.B. (1465), I. 135
Harcourt, Robert, K.G. 1463, I. 14
Harcourt or Hardecourt, Robert, K.B. (1494), I. 144
Harecourt, Robert, Kt. 1497, II, 28 [Battle of Blackheath]
Harcourt, Symon, Kt. 1513, II. 40 [invasion of France, June-October 1513]
Harcourt (Harecourt), Simon, Kt. 1627, II. 192
Harcourt, Simon, Kt. 1702, II. 272
Harcourt, Walter, Kt. 1591, II. 228
Harcourt, William, earl Harcourt, G.C.B. 1820, I. 184

Disconnected Agnes Cope as daughter.

You have mentioned the manor history to be found here:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/oxon/vol12/pp274-281

There's an IPM for John his father attached to Robert's sources may shed further light

Catherine Stonor seems to have similar husbands to Agnes.

Tudor Place & others claim this Catherine Harcourt, who married Thomas Stonor, was a daughter of Robert, not a sister.

Also it somehow looks like her daughter was her husband's first wife. Which can't be right.

Sir Thomas Stonor, Kt.

It would be nice if names had been better differentiated.

Sir Robert Harcourt, KG

I think daughters Catherine & Agnes became confused, and either there's two Catherine Harcourts or this one belongs as daughter of John as per the property suit.

John Harcourt's "official" death date is "26 June 2 Ric III", which makes calculations tricky - Richard's (hastily arranged) coronation was on 6 July 1483, but he backdated some stuff to the scheduled but never held coronation of his nephew Edward V (it would have been 22 June). And he accepted the crown on 26 June by petition of Parliament....

This means it could have been either 1484 *or* 1485, depending on which date is used as "day 1 Year 1 Ric III".

It is possible to calculate the correct year of death using a regnal calendar, which I have done in the IPM.

His death date was 26 June 1485. The first 1st day of the 3rd year of Richard III's reign.

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cal/reg18.htm

Robert, John's heir was found to be age 12 or more in 1485, making his birth date 1473 or before?

Sorry - Robert, son of John d 1485, must have been born 1466

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000034104902595&

Robert Harecourt was aged 19 and more in his father's IPM dated 1488. Born by 1469.

Robert Harecourt was aged 14 and more in his grandmother's IPM dated 1486. Born by 1472.

I would make his birth date circa 1469-1472.

These were some early IPM's I added. I will change the info I have on the source tab for these IPM's to make it clearer.

Thank you, and without them would have been lost altogether!

My impression is that "no surviving issue" also includes daughters, and that his sisters etc were his heirs. So I've been rearranging the girls, needs another pair of eyes, and I have a parentless Catherine Harcourt (sister of John d 1485 ???)

Here's parentless wife of David Brecknock (if her maiden name isn't a mixup with her daugther's husband's 2nd wife)

I'm on mommy duty, so will take a look later when she goes down for a sleep.

Disconnected William Harcourt as son of John Harcourt & Ann Norrys as per Maven's comment on birth location of Market Bosworth, supported by the notes from Plantagenet Ancestry and the IPMs. He must belong to a different branch. Rejected the SmartMatches with the parent claims.

Another issue is, who was "Richard Harcourt d. 1513", who was the first heir after Robert Harcourt (d. bef. 1509)? VCH says he was a "great-nephew" of Sir Robert Harcourt KG MP d. 1470.

The subsequent heir, Sir Simon Harcourt (d. 1547), was stated to be another "great-nephew", but it does not appear that they were brothers, or father and son, unless the Geni tree is thoroughly FUBAR.

Here's what Findagrave.com has on Sir Simon Harcourt:

Sir Simon Harcourt
Birth 1473
England
Death 16 Jan 1547 (aged 73-74)
Stanton Harcourt, West Oxfordshire District, Oxfordshire, England
Burial
St Michael's Churchyard
Stanton Harcourt, West Oxfordshire District, Oxfordshire, England

Knight of Witham, Berkshire, Stoke Hammond and Fenny Stratford, Buckinghamshire. Of Asshom, Northamptonshire.

Second but eldest surviving son of Sir Christopher Harcourt and Jane Stapleton. Grandson of Sir Richard Harcourt [KG] and Edith Saint Clair, Sir Miles Stapleton and Katherine de la Pole.

Husband of Agnes Darrell, daughter of Thomas Darrell of Scotney, Kent and Thomasine Gresley, daughter of Sir John. They had two sons and one daughter; Sir John, Edmund and Florence, the wife of Sir John Cotesmore.

Secondly, husband of Elizabeth Darcy, widow of Sir Richard York who died 27 Oct 1528. They had no issue.

Simon was heir to his cousin, Sir Robert Harcourt, and inherited the manors of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, Market Bosworth, Leicestershire and Ellenhall of Stafford. He distinguished himself at the sieges of Therouanne and Tournay, knighted at the Battle of Spurs in 1513.

Sir Simon was buried at Stanton Harcourt. Elizabeth left a will dated 16 May 1556, proved 06 May 1557.

I think the earlier Catherine Harcourt, mother of Sibella Brecknock, may not have existed. So far I see David Brecknock's wife as unknown

From https://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=john...

Wrardisbury [Wraysbury?] or Remenham manor in Wraysbury in the Stoke Hundred was given to John Brecknock (1463) by Edward IV. It had been held by Christiana (grand daughter of Geoffrey de Marisco, justiciar of Ireland) one of the Ridlesford heiresses who surrendered her lands in the Connaught, south Kildare to the king in 1281. Brecknock died in 1476 and his widow Elizabeth in 1489. Sybil, grand daughter of John Brekenoke and wife of Thomas Stonor, held the manor afterwards. Richard, Duke of York secured for John Brekenoke, the office of Treasurer of the Household to Henry VI and he was also the King's Receiver for Cornwall.

Sybil Stonor was the daughter of David Brecknock, John's son.

-----

The research is based on History of the Parish of Wraysbury, Ankerwycke Priory, and Magna Charta ... By Gordon Willoughby James Gyll page 16

https://books.google.com/books?id=-7NCAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=...

Conflicts for John Brecknock, Esq.

* Parents seen as John de Valois de Bourgogne & Margarite de Bourgogne
* Parents also seen as David Brecknock
* Birth date seen as c 1418 in Brecknock, Wales
* Birth place also seen as Horsenden Parish, Bucks, England

I made an error calculating John Harcourt's death year.

26 June, 2 Ric. III is 26 June 1484, not 1485. It seems other's have also made this mistake including Douglas Richardson in his Magna Carta Ancestry.

This is confirmed by the following document in the patent rolls.

Jan 11. Westminster 1485
Grant to Anne Harecourte, widow, late the wife of John Harecourt,
esquire, son and heir of Robert Harecourt, knight, of a yearly rent of 20
marks from all manors and lands in the county of Oxford in the king's
hands by reason of the minority of Edward, earl of Warwick, son of George,
late duke of Clarence, during the said minority. By p.s.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=iau.31858020272138;view=1up;...

I managed to find a reference to the 1440 settlement mentioned in the descent of the manor of Stanton Harcourt.

Oct 19. Westminster 1440
Licence, for 10l. paid in the hanaper, for Robert Harecourt, knight, to
enfeoff Robert Longley and Roger Bothe and their heirs of two parts of
the manor of Staunton Harecourt, held of the king in chief, and for them
to grant the premises to the said Robert Harecourt and Margaret, late the
wife of William Athirton, knight, for life, with successive remainders to the
heirs male of his body, to Richard Harecourt, his brother, and the heirs
male of his body, to John Harecourt, his brother, and the heirs male of
his body, to William Harecourt, his brother, and the heirs male of his
body, to Richard Harecourt, uncle of the said Robert, and the heirs male
of his body, and to the said Robert's right heirs.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31158013013296;view=1up;...

Stanton Harcourt was to go to the "heirs male" of Robert Harcourt KG, which meant female heirs could not inherit the manor.

Robert Harcourt's grandson apparently had a son who died before his father and four daughters.

The next living "heir male" was Richard Harcourt (d. 1513), son of Christopher Harcourt, grandson of Richard Harcourt (d. 1486) who was the brother of Robert Harcourt KG.

When Richard Harcourt died in 1513, his brother Simon Harcourt inherited Stanton Harcourt.

I will add the IPMs for Richard Harcourt (d. 1486) which mention his sons and grandsons.

So it didn't matter whether Robert (d. bef. 1509) had daughters or not, they couldn't inherit anyway because the manor was entailed.

That also means that Sir Richard of Stanton Harcourt (c1416-1486) must have been older than John Harcourt of Ranton (c. 1417?), as otherwise the manor would have come to Thomas Harcourt, Esq. and male descendants, not to Sir Christopher's sons.

Hmmm...somebody needs to check birth dates for Joan Huddleston and sons, and death date for Sir Christopher Harcourt, Kt.. We have some biological impossibilities here as things currently stand.

If nothing else gives, Sir Christopher must have had an unknown first wife, because Joan Stapleton CANNOT have borne those children at 7, 8-9, and 10 years old.

See Discussion about "Katherine de la Pole - Messy Nest".

Just to tie up

I find no reason to believe wife of David Brecknock was a "Catherine Harcourt"

If anyone finds evidence, they should provide it. I think it's just a mixup with her daughter.

According to the 1488 IPM for Katherine, wife of Richard Harecourt, knt. her daughter Joan was aged 26 and more. Born by 1462.

In the 1494 IPM Joan is recorded as being 48 and more. Born by 1446.

The ages in the 1494 IPM seem to be more accurate.

I will change her birth date to circa 1446

I will also change her sister, Elizabeth's birth to circa 1444

Guess whoever wrote up the 1488 IPM was very, very bad at guessing women's ages.
:-D

Men!

This Joan Stapleton is linked to the John Huddleston who is her father in law .She married as her second husband the John Huddleston who died in 1512.