Charles Marais, SV/PROG - No proof of parents

Can you upload this source, Judi "I also bought a proof(source) of the marriage certificate of Charles and Catharine that ws here years ago. I still have it somewhere. It was signed in the house of Chatharine's parent with the parents as witnesses."

Sharon Doubell NO. You have understood wrong. Please see my next answer regarding your question.

There are ample proof that those are the Parents of Charles Marais X Catharine Taboudeaux.

On a web page/ancient research of years ago, there are another Charles Marais (a) but married to someone else and not related to this Charles Prog. of us.

The second Charles Marais has a very short relative list, only going to the"d" line. There are NO PROOF, of HIS parents as the are called unknown.

Please those parents Jean Marais en RACHELLE MILLESEAU are the correct parents of our Charles.

My explanation in English must have been "skeef and krom." PLEASE LEAVE TOSE PARENTS and sibbling as is.

☺ Groete/Regards.

Judi

Refer to- https://maraisfamily.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=maraisfami...

Charles was from Longvilliers, south west of Paris

Hi Judi - it seems I did misunderstand you. I'm still not sure about the short and the long lines you're talking about, or how they pertain to Francois duToit. Sorry.

That aside, these profiles need sources uploaded. I understand that you've got a marriage certificate that links to the parents. That would do it.

Thanks Teresa, can you put that on the profiles? That'a at least a start. Does it give Sources?

No need to worry. Hopefully after this weekend, month end at the business and VAT etc finished I will find the other one and scan and sen to you.

Thank you Teresa for you input.

Happy weekend.

Judi

Thank you Theresa. That is priceless information. I will add it to the profile.

Judi

We still need actual Sources as proof,Private.

Also, can we delete the link to Quiren Kehren Ottemus Marais as his parent. There appears to be nothing to substantiate it. https://www.geni.com/discussions/178303?msg=1201399

Sharon I am happy with the Quiren if I haven't added it. As fare as the parents of Charles that is indeed correct. I don't think it should be deleted from the prog. as there are a lot of people how id managers there and unless concrete proof can be given of that being incorrect, we should leave it as is.

Have a good weekend.

'Proof of incorrect' isn't good genealogical practice, or good historical practice.

But you've said you've got the marriage certificate - that's a Source.

cf http://www.ballfamilyrecords.co.uk/bosmandevriesbuys/I602.html and http://www.ballfamilyrecords.co.uk/bosmandevriesbuys/I603.html

http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g8/p8561.htm and http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g8/p8562.htm

I can find this that you've given us before
"'n Voorhuwelikse kontrak is om 12H00 op 24 Augustus 1659 tussen Charles Marais en Catherine Tabourdeaux in die huis van die Tabourdeaux-gesin onderteken.
Volgens die navorsing van 'Pascal Herbert" was daar 'n voorhuwelikse kontak deur Charles stamvader en Catherine Tabourdeux opgestel en was haar ouers Claude Tabourdeux en Jeanne Cronier.
Die getuies by die ondertekenening van die kontrak was Pierre Anceame, oom van Charles se pa en Hierosme Legrande 'n neef.
Vir Catherine was dit 2 broer Jean en Jacques aan haar kant van die familie."

No parents for him are given there.

Sharon Doubell I am not going to make something out of this at all. I have paid for the information to GISA in 1985 and then also Hugenote Museum later on and do have it as that on Legacy.

Here are many managers on these age old profiles on Geni. If all the other managers agree with you that you should unlinck his parents I won't say anything about it.

No proof to the fact that they are not his parents could be found by youself or proof that they are. So as far as i am concerned, until all other managers are satisfied, take his parents away.

I just haven't got the time or energy so spend time on messages on a daily basis relating to this. I really wan't to help people here and contribute, not give what if's.

Have a lovely Sunday and week.

Regards

Judi

Unsure what the point about 'making something out of this' is here?
Is there no proof of his parents?
This is my 9th Great grandfather - I'd love to have parents for him. I don't want something that isn't fact though.

The following s something that needs to be looked at further - referring to the ante nuptial contract between Charles and Catherine at https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Charles_Marais_(2)

"Some more facts found in the contract were that the parents of Charles were Jean Marais and Rachelle Milleseau. His farther was a well known shoemaker. Catherine's parents were Jeanne Cronier and Claude Tabourdeux, with her farther working in the weaving industry. The witnesses with the signing of the contract were Pierre Anceaume, a tradesman from Dourdan, an uncle from Charles's farther and Hierosme Legrand, a cousin from his father's side. For Catherine it was two brothers, Jean and Jacques and family from her side. The ship belonging to the Chamber of Delft with Franz Villierius as captain."

This document is obviously of great significance but as yet I have not found a copy yet - looking/enquiring

I think even the original wording of the document that included those parent names would enough.

Translation of the wording we have from Judi

"A pre-marriage contract was signed at the Tabourdeaux family house between Charles Marais and Catherine Tabourdeaux on 24 August 1659 at 12h00.
According to the research of 'Pascal Herbert', a prenuptial contact was drawn up by Charles the StamVader (Male Progenitor) and Catherine Tabourdeux, and her parents - Claude Tabourdeux and Jeanne Cronier.
The witnesses at the signing of the contract were Pierre Anceame, an uncle of Charles's father, and Hierosme Legrande, a nephew.
For Catherine it was 2 brothesrs - Jean and Jacques on her side of the family."

The link that was provide by June, state the parents names. Yes we can reaches some more.
Leave the profile like it is at this stage.

Thank you June I will leave it at that.

Charles Marais is my direct GGGF.

I am trying to find the original source, or reference to the document with correct title etc. Will post if I get anywhere!

Thanks June. Please call us back here if you do. I have tried and failed - but it must exist.
If Private has a copy of it that would solve everything.

Charles is my direct gr grandfather too - that's why I want it correct.

Thanks, June for clearing things up.

It isn't cleared up. We're still looking for the Sources.

I am going to the doctor and June could you please add that piece of info we got from another researcher. I will just add the relevant piece here for clarification.
Charles and Catherine immigrated to South Africa on the ship “Voorschooten” on 31 December 1687. The passenger list of the ship showed the ages of the four children as follows: Claude (24), Charles (19), Isaac (10) and Mari-Madeleine (6). According to research undertaken by the genealogist Pascal Herbert at a later stage, Charles and Catharine had a fifth child named Jacques Marais. He was born ca. 1666 and accepted the Catholic faith when he was 21 years old on 4 November 1685. He decided to stay in Paris when his parents left for the Northern Provinces. Another piece of information found was the ante nuptial contract between Charles and Catherine. Some more facts found in the contract was that the parents of Charles were Jean Marais and Rachelle Milleseau. His farther was a well known shoemaker. Catherine’s parents were Jeanne Cronier and Claude Tabourdeux, with her farther working in the weaving industry. The witnesses with the signing of the contract were Pierre Anceaume, a tradesman from Dourdan, an uncle from Charles’s farther and Hierosme Legrand, a cousin from his father’s side. For Catherine it was two brothers, Jean and Jacques and family from her side. The ship belonged to the Chamber of Delft with Franz Villierius as captain.

They left Deltshaven on 31 December 1687 and arrived in Saldanha Bay on 13th April 1688. They landed at Saldanha Bay due to damage caused to the ship by a severe storm. A messenger was send to Table Bay to inform Simon van der Stel who sent the ship “Jupiter” to fetch the immigrants to arrive at the fort on 28th April 1688 with the following passengers on board: - Charles Marais & Catherine Tabourdeux - Claude (24), Charles jnr. (19), Isaac (10), Marie-Madeleine (6) Marais - Philippe Foucher & Ann Souchay - Anne (6), Esther (5), Jacques (3) Foucher - Gaspard Foucher (21) (now Fouché) - Jacques Pinard (23) & Esther Foucher (21), “dese 2 sijn alhier voor haer vertreck te samen getrouwt” - Gedeon Malherbe (25) “jaeren jonghman” - Estienne Bruere (now Bruwer) “jonghman oud 23 jaeren is een wagenmaker” - Jean Leroux “out 21 jaren jonghman” - Gabriel le Roux “out 17 jaeren” - Pierre Sabatier (22) “de Massiere jongman” - Jean Machepaste (Paste) “25 jaeren jonghman” - Pauel Godefroy (22) “jaeren jonghman” - Marguerite Basche “jonge dogter out 23 jaeren”.

We got that link thank you, Judi. We're looking for Sources.

Private User says of Charles Marais, SV/PROG

It seems as if Charles senior Marais was born in 1603 and that his father was Louis Marais. His mother's name was not indicated
Name: Charles Marais
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 21 May 1603
Event Place: Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Seine-et-Oise, Île-de-France, France
Event Place (Original): Saint-Germain-En-Laye, Seine-Et-Oise, France
Gender: Male
Father's Name: Louis Marais
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1Y9-G3D

Charles Senior has a Brother, who was named after his father
Name: Louis Marais
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 17 Feb 1601
Event Place: Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Seine-et-Oise, Île-de-France, France
Event Place (Original): Saint-Germain-En-Laye, Seine-Et-Oise, France
Gender: Male
Father's Name: Louis Marais
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1Y9-NJG
and a sister
Name: Louise Marais
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 8 Oct 1598
Event Place: Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Seine-et-Oise, Île-de-France, France
Event Place (Original): Saint-Germain-En-Laye, Seine-Et-Oise, France
Gender: Female
Father's Name: Louis Marais
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1Y9-DLZ

Michel Marais
baptism:
23 October 1595
Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Seine-et-Oise, Île-de-France, France
father:Louis Marais
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1Y9-CXJ

Pierre Marais
baptism:
13 January 1590
Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Seine-et-Oise, Île-de-France, France
father:Louis Marais
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1Y9-SPX

Jacques Marais
baptism:13 October 1591
Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Seine-et-Oise, Île-de-France, France
father: Louis Marais
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1Y9-722

Sincerely,

L Kotzé

Also It seems as if he has the following siblings (one can compare their names to some of his children's too)

Rene 1630(has perhaps died young): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMTM-7QY
Charles 1632 (has perhaps died young): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMTM-WYR
Claude 1633 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F9HX-LH3
Catherine 1634: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F9HX-LG6
Anne 1635: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F9HX-G3V
Louis 1637: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FM56-X65
Rene 1642https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMY4-XQC
Roch 1644: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMY4-698
Hyerosme 1646: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FML6-SZP

The parents of these kids and Charles 1638 got married on 2 April 1628 in Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Seine-et-Oise, Île-de-France, France https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FF7L-QLK

Sharon I am definately sure that our Charles paretn were named Jean Marais - One son that stayed behind was callef Jean and Mother Rachelle - surename forgotten now.

These might as we have seen so many times an brother of Jea called Charles or something of this sort.

I busy with the deadline of genesis and my time are a bit limited, but is I read it correct L thinks these are the parents of our Charles.

It needs much more proof than just corresponding names, I think.

I have the facts of our Charles somewhere on my PC, if it hasn't been taken away with my recent PC damage.

Judi