Searching for grandfather

Where did you have the YDNA done? Was it at FTDNA, or ??
You said you tested "also with FTDNA" -- do you mean the FamilyFinder Test at FTDNA or?

Hi Lois, YDNA was done by Living DNA and we did the family finder test through FTDNA as well as Ancestry. The really annoying part of FTDNA was that I arranged the family finder test between my father and this potential male relative in Poland (no match) - FTDNA did the Y-DNA on the other chap but not on my dad and refuse to do it, despite my father's situation.

Karman Johnstone -
I would have thought you could have easily ordered a YDNA Test as an upgrade from his FamilyFinder Test at FTDNA. Is that what you tried?

If not, what did you try? If yes, what happened?

by "an upgrade from his FamilyFinder Tes" -- mean probably more accurately - as an upgrade - from same Kit his FamilyFinder Test is on.

Hi Lois, I'm going to look into this further again with FTDNA to hopefully get something sorted with his YDNA test. Watch this space!

Karman Johnstone - did you actually have a FamilyFinder Test run on his DNA - or did you just have a comparison test done on him and the other person to determine if the two folks were relatives?

Hi Lois, it was a family finder test (autosomal) as the the YDNA would not have been useful as the gentleman in question was born to my dad's potential father's sister. When their DNA was sent in, my dad's swab reached FTDNA first and ran his DNA test on an 'older' chip, and by the time the other chap's swab arrived, they had upgraded their chip and also ran this gentleman's YDNA and mtDNA, but not my dad's, which was just crazy - my dad had paid for this test (nearly £500) and on top of the non-match (we were certain there would be a match given the striking similarities in photos), which was very disappointing, my dad also had to deal with the fact that FTDNA would not run his Y and mtDNA as they had done on the other chap. I have written to Bennett Greenspan (his email address has been kindly provided) so I hope some good will come out of this. We would love to find his dad (likely to be passed away), but also his family. It's a part of his life (and ours) that is missing.

Karman Johnstone - just to be clear - they will not let you order and pay for a YDNA Test as an upgrade on his Kit -- or they will not run the test on the Kit without you ordering and paying additional money?

I will have to pay .... this is the response I got from FTDNA. Essentially, they blamed DNA Worldwide for the mishap:

"The Family Finder test was done on the same chip. The mtDNA and Y-DNA haplogroup tests are a completely different process from autosomal DNA testing in the lab. One test ordered through DNA Worldwide had this additional testing, and one test ordered through DNA Worldwide did not have this additional testing. Again, the Family Finder tests on both accounts were exactly the same.

I understand your request, but as I stated before since you purchased through a reseller FTDNA cannot honor it."

Have you perused the suggestions in http://forums.familytreedna.com/forumdisplay.php?f=198 and/or asked for suggestions there?

Since your father is elderly and not in good health, suggest you contact FTDNA and request additional collection Swabs. This would be for his same Kit, and would ensure that once you have enough money collected to pay (possibly during one of the sale times) for an upgrade to YDNA (or etc) that they have enough DNA to do the test. I believe they routinely do this for free (although if not in US, might have to pay the return postage).

On FamilyFinder at FTDNA - does he actually have no matches at all?? Have you checked "yes" for receive e-mail confirmation for all levels of matches?

Thanks Lois, very much appreciate your suggestions. I have kindly been provided with the email address of Bennett Greenspan and have emailed him with the hope that he will 'overrule' in this situation, i.e. ask FTDNA to run the Y-DNA test as they did on the other gentleman's test.

Dad has lots of matches on FTDNA but I'm unable to identify his paternal connections due to having no paternal surname/family tree - needle in a haystack!!

Karman Johnstone - You say your Father has lots of matches on FTDNA. BUT - you do not mention how close his closest matches are. Nor if any of them appear to be related (Chromosome Browser is your friend here as much as any Trees they have submitted or other info on their profile).
MyHeritage has introduced a Chromosome Browser, GedMatch has a Chromosome Browser. And you can do "in common with" at all three (FTDNA, MyHeritage, and GedMatch). Does he actually have "No Matches" at any of those three, or ??

If you knew that one of 4 siblings was a parent of his - for example, Bill and George Smith, and their sisters Mary and Susan - then
if all four were alive to do FamilyFinder - it would conclusively prove both which was the parent, and whether it was mother or father - without any need for YDNA testing.
Just testing one of the sisters would let you know probably conclusively if she was a) his mother - or b) not his mother but her sister was [not enough DNA to be parent, enough to be Aunt; - he inherited his one X-Chromosome from his mother- so good possibility it will have major match with X- of her sister] - or c) not his mother, and it was probably one of her brothers who was the parent [DNA in the Aunt Range, not an X-match ]
Extrapolate for descendants of these folks, and what might be gleaned from their DNA.
Etc.

I think you should stop sweating so much over the YDNA Testing - it only provides info on his father's father's father's father[etc] and their direct male descendants.
Your father likely has lots and lots of relatives who will not share YDNA with him. (all the other descendants of his mother, of his mother's siblings, of his father's sisters, all the 2nd and 3rd cousins and 4th cousins on his mother's side, all the descendants of the siblings of his father's mother and etc.)

Yes, get the extra swabs so eventually you can do additional testing at FTDNA, just in case any will be useful.

Hi Lois, apologies for the delay in replying.

Dad has loads of matches on FTDNA, Ancestry, My Heritage and GedMatch, but it is determining the male lineage that I do not have a clue about, i.e. I have have no idea how to separate matches from my father's mother's line (unless X-match) and my dad's father's line (unless Y-match). I was able to find a gentleman who had the same subclade group as my dad (passed down the paternal line) but never heard back from the gentleman (have emailed him again). I really am wet behind the ears re. chromosome browser as you can probably tell. I appreciate your encouragement/advice - thanks Lois. Kind regards, Karman

Suggest you first focus on trying to figure out how the closest matches are related to your father - if you can figure out how they are related to him, then "determining the male lineage" will likely take care of itself.

Again, you say "Dad has loads of matches on FTDNA, Ancestry, My Heritage and GedMatch" but give not a clue as to how close the closest are. If they are all out at the 4th - Remote Cousin Range, then possibly not helpful. If any is at the 1st-3rd cousin range or closer - than a very good chance it could be helpful.

Hi Lois, dad has matches as close as 2nd cousin - 3rd cousin. As an example lots of Cohen's on FTDNA (the closest was 3rd cousin). The closest cousin he has was 2nd cousin but he couldn't really help and without having a surname, how does one determine where the connection is, i.e. that it is not my dad's mum's line as opposed to his father's line? This is where I am stuck.

FTDNA saying range is 2nd-3rd is very far from the person being a 2nd Cousin, especially if we are talking matches among Jews (which "lots of Cohens" suggests). How many of his matches on FTDNA show shared cMs of 200 or more?

You said "The closest cousin he has was 2nd cousin" - what are you basing that on, and is that at FTDNA, or if not, which company was it at?

Did the person who you refer to as a 2nd cousin - how many shared cM's and how long was longest segment? Did he have any type of tree? When you do "In Common" with him on your Dad's Kit, are there others in that group who are strong matches?

Hi Lois, the highest match on FTDNA of cMs is 87 - that is the 2nd to 4th cousin with longest block of 26. Yes, this chap has a family tree but private one. I match him as 5th - remote cousin - cMs 36, longest block 8. The other matches against my dad are 63 CMs downwards. I was advised that anything >30 cMs, I should look into as a possible def. connection.

Above, you said "the closest cousin he has was 2nd cousin". Was this the one you are now saying shares 87 cMs, and is listed as 2nd-4th Cousin? On FTDNA, range of 2nd-4th Cousin means Suggested 3rd Cousin, not 2nd cousin. So this suggests there is no suggested 2nd cousin on FTDNA.

Do I understnad correctly - the same person matches you Dad with 87 cMs shared, longest block 26 cM - and matches you with 36 cMs shared, longest block 8? Have you looked on Chromosome Browser to see if your matches to him are in the same places as your Dad's? (so you know that yes, your match to him is thru your Dad - as opposed to a coincidence)

Is that match living in the US, or? Is he willing to share with you the names of his parents and/or grandparents? [grandparents should feel like less of a privacy invasion - and with any luck will be born long enough ago that they will appear in Records that can be found]
I think of "lots of Cohens" as suggesting Jewish ethnicity included to some extent, but if 87 is the highest shared cMs, then maybe not.
Approximately how many matches does your Dad have on FTDNA?

Have you posted a request in FTDNA's "Adoptees Forum" for suggestions on how to proceed? (That is the FTDNA link I gave above)

I am not good at all at manipulating Excel, so I cannot really explain how to use the Excel file you can get if Download all your results on Chromosome Browser to find the folks who match on the same segments. But basically, one can do something like that, then try to find the Family Trees of those folks who each match you in the same place, either thru their sharing or finding trees for them/their parents or grandparents on Ancestry or etc or doing the research your self to create a tree - then find mutual ancestor(s) on those trees - then chase and convince descendants further down the line to test (most folks trying to do this offer to pay for their FamilyFinder Test) to see if they match you any closer, and etc. Somebody there can probably explain it much more clearly, or give you a reference which will.

Do you have any info on your Dad's mother and/or know anyone who is a relative of his mother?

You say you have uploaded his results to MyHeritage and to GEDmatch - but No Matches - really, absolutely zero matches at both? Did you upload the results from FTDNA or from Ancestry? If it is truly zero matches, I would suggest try the other, since it is free, just to be sure same results.