translation needed please

the father and the son changed their names to Fehér. The child changed his religion to Evangelist church in 1939.

ag. h. ev. = Ágostai hitvallás evangelikus = Augsburg Confession: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg_Confession

It's some kind of Lutheran, but I don't know if it's exactly the same.

When the father changed his last name, the name of his minor children was most of all changed as well. This is István's marriage record, his last name was changed to Fehér, but he didn't convert yet: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SP9-DYC?i=272&amp...

You did not comment on the two 'ub' notices on the far right of the second document.
ub 967 / 1944 and ub 767 / 1938
In case you did not know, the first numbers usually refer to the folio in the district record and the second are the years of that record.
They are both worth checking out for they should be a key to the entries showing when the bride and groom died.

Correction the second ub date was 1988 not 1938.
These deaths have not yet found their way into the MACSE indexes, but the deaths of 2 of their children have.
District VI Folio 346, Stillborn child died on 24 Feb 1903,
District VI Folio 2169 their 29 day old Daughter Katalin died Christmas day 1906,

Thank you so much for your quick replies! Awesome! I asked you this question as being part of an ongoing investigation about my grandfather, László Weisz, born on 05-01-1902 in Budapest, Pest-Pilis-Solt-Kiskun.

I have been searching for his birth record in several attempts with several people assisting me over the years, still without any success at all

László was the son of general merchant József Weiss and Ilona Ujhelyi. Jozsef's father was Marton Antal Weiss, married to Erzsézet/Erzsebet Kardos. Ilona Ujhelyi was the daughter of Zsigmund Ujhelyi and Katalin Paradi.

These names are the only pieces of evidence I have. I have no official documents, photos or any oral history linked to them whatsoever.

If you have any suggestions pointing me into the right direction on how to obtain his birth record, please do let me know. I would be very grateful if somebody could help me with this.

I tried to find László and his parents, but I didn't get anywhere yet. Weiss/Weisz is very a common name and if everyone was Jewish, names like Ujhelyi and Kardos may not have been their original last name. Do you have a document with his last residence in Hungary or his parents' residence? Could László have been born out of wedlock and was therefore registered with his mother's last name?

In 1902 there were several men named József Weisz who lived in Budapest and who were merchants (keresk.) I checked the birth records of January for these districts, but nothing. László must have been born somewhere :)

This is the link to the 1902 city directory of Budapest: https://library.hungaricana.hu/en/view/BPLAKCIMJEGYZEK_13_1901-1902...

Hi Iva,

we have been looking at the same address book. We came across this page:
https://library.hungaricana.hu/hu/view/BPLAKCIMJEGYZEK_12_1900-1901...

A József, some sort of business man, living on Árpád-út 16 and across the street a baker called Márton living at Árpád-út 11. Could perhaps have been his father? In the same street I found an István Kardos, a master ropemaker. perhaps a relative from Erzsebet Kardos?

I have no documents whatsoever confirming any sort of connection to Hungary apart from documents in Holland, and the marriage certificate in London. On the marriage certificate the profession of his father is mentioned as a general merchant. And that is just it.

I have made a website about everything I do know about his life, but it is written in Dutch. I have one page written in English which explain the several unsolved mysteries that surrounds him.

http://laszloweiss.webnode.nl/laszlo-weiss-the-loose-ends/

Two Quick questions
You wrote a birth date of 05-01-1902 in Budapest, Pest-Pilis-Solt-Kiskun, but no district.
[1] Do I take it that the district is unknown to you?
[2] As Hungarians reverse almost everything, was that 1st of May or 5th of January?

Indeed Roy, the district is not known and the official birth date is based on Dutch documents
( https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/archiefkaarten_1939-1994/zoek/que... )

Having re read things, I am now a little confused. Do I gather that you feel that the Istvan born on the same date as your Lazslo was a totally different guy and therefore had different parents. So any children of Mano Weisz and Terez nee Tropp, would be a false trail, for you are looking for a Lazslo and his siblings born to Jozsef and Ilona Ujhelyi?

Roy

Yes, as far as I understood it now, Istvan is not my grandfather. I am looking for the birth record of my grandfather Laszlo Weisz and perhaps marriage records of his parents and or great grandparents

Here are some ideas:
- Contact the Moholy-Nagy Academy and ask if they have an archive or a list with the names of former students.
- Contact the NIOD of you haven't already done so, they might have a file on your grandfather: https://www.niod.nl

I was wondering if could have crafted his own passport, he was an artist after all. But in one of the documents from Amsterdam it says that he got his passport from the Hungarian consulate and I assume that the consulate checked the facts. It would be great if you still have his passport.

How do you know the names of his grandparents, through your grandmother?

I have contacted the Moholy-Nagy Academy, but there was no trace of him there to be found. Such a shame because the academy ideals at that time fitted perfectly with all the skills he mastered. Via the NIOD I got documents related to his time in Camp Vught and Sachsenhausen amongst some other things like drawings of his.

He was skilled to fake his own passport indeed. At the moment I am working with historian Brigitta, and she suggested there might be copies of his passport at the Hungarian consulate...? I do not have it. There were several moments in the thirties where he had to extend his visa for the Netherlands.

I have one letter written by my grandmother to the Dutch authorities where she gave all the names. And that's it really. I have nothing else to confirm these were even his actual parents. No proof whatsoever.

Possible reasons why you can't find his birth record:
- He was born in another town.
- He was adopted.
- He was an illegitimate child and therefore registered with his mother's last name.
- His mother was first married to another man, when she remarried József Weiss she and her children took the name Weiss/Weisz. Weisz is the most common Hungarian spelling.
- He was born as László on January 5, 1902, but his last name was different.

I'm reading the story on your website about what happened after WWII. What if he survived, what if he escaped to another country? What if he started a new family? Did you take or consider taking a DNA test? If you have only one Hungarian grandparent it's easier separate your Hungarian from non Hungarian DNA matches. Ancestry DNA has the largest database and you can upload to other databases (Family Tree DNA, GedMatch).

Can I add to Iva's string.
He was born as Laszlo son of Mano, but for some reason his name was changed and he was brought up by a relative of Mano's called Jozsef.

I don't think that the birth record of István Weisz son of Máno Weisz is the correct one. There were several Lászlos born in January 1902 in the VIIth district, I would check them carefully.

Private User, I think it was illegal to be involved in communist activities in Hungary in the 1920s. Do you know more about this time in history? It could be one of the reasons why he moved to Germany.

Post 1919, former supporters of the Communist leader Bela Kun were taken to court and charged. It's not unreasonable to consider that some of them may have chosen to abscond to Germany or other countries.

Interesting lines of thought, you people! Awesome and overwhelming at the same time. This is all just adding up to the long, long list of loose ends on his history. Is this karma, LOL?

They only evidence I found that leads to the believe he was a communist was based on what my grandmother told the officials, which was then noted on his foreigner administration card.

see bottom left corner:

http://laszloweiss.webnode.nl/documentatie/photogallerycbm_47170/4/...

Listen up guys, the discussion triggered something in the memory of my mother...and I think it happened because of something Iva has put forward in her set of questions she posted at 1:39 PM today

The following can be judged as somewhat chaotic, but this is one of these rare moments something comes back to my mothers mind.

Laszlo seems to have had an English mother and a stepmother. Now next thing is how my mother is interpreting this piece of information:

His father Jozsef might have had a relationship outside of his marriage, this might well be the English woman. Another possibility she suggests is that Jozsef was firstly married to an English woman, she might have died and then he married Ilona Ujhelyi

Now that the UK has come up I must mention again that Laszlo married my grandmother in London. They stayed in London for six months. In these six months my grandmother got pregnant of her firstborn son Robert

Here is the marriage certificate:
http://laszloweiss.webnode.nl/documentatie/#huwelijks-certificaat-jpg1

On the marriage certificate there is only the name of László's father. On the card from Amsterdam, where it says that he died in Bergen-Belsen, László's parents' names are not listed. I think that the parents' names are normally listed on these cards.

Could József Weiss have lived in England, or the English lady in Budapest? Let's hope that László was born in Budapest, that makes it easier to locate his birth record. You just need to check every László that was born in January 1902 and take a closer look at the parents' names. If László was an illegitimate child or if József recognized/adopted Lászlo as his son, there should be a note on the birth record. Hungarians recorded about everything, that can be very helpful in genealogical research.

Wow! That is good to know, Iva.

There is also another thought. On the marriage certificate he was called Laszlo _Weiss_ Roland. Could that perhaps be the surname of his biological mother?

I checked the civil records of Budapest again and I noticed that some of the 1902 birth records aren't available, like the 1st, 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th district: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&pl...

I found this entry for a László WEISZ in the 7th district of Budapest. Father Lipót WEISZ, mother Eszter DEUTSCH. He was born Jewish but converted to Roman Catolicism in 1934 and in 1935 he changed his last name from WEISZ to VAS. It looks like he died in 1981, so I don't think that this is your grandfather: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MZS-S4D

The surname Weisz was very common among Hungarian Jews, but there were also Catholic or Lutheran Germans living in Hungary who were named Weiss or Weisz.

I tried to find Zsigmond Ujhelyi, I found someone with this name who lived in the late 18th century. Ujhelyi is a noble family originally from Tiszaújhelyi, now Nove Selo, just across the border in Ukraine.

I also found: Zsigmond Tiszaujhelyi Ujhelyi (1834-1898), He was born and died in Tiszaújhelyi and had three children. This Zsigmond was the son of Sándor Ujhely (1800-1862)

Coat of arms: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/hu/2/26/Tiszaujhelyi_Ujhelyi...

Hi Iva, my grandfather was long gone, away from Hungary, living in Cologne and perhaps at a certain period of time in Berlin as well. He arrived permanently in The Netherlands from 1932 on up until the day he got arrested in '44

My grandmother was a Lutheran, and my grandfather registered himself officially as Roman Catholic. That fact must have been confirmed by his Hungarian identity papers I must presume, which he needed every once in a while to prolong his visa for staying here.

Wow! Good research done there on Ujhelyi, Iva!