Sir William Gardiner - @ Sir William Gardiner

That was helpful. I've made progress in separating two different William Gardiners

This is the findagrave link I found in the about section on William Gardener's profile. https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=71379140

The birth date and place should be viewed with much scepticism as the user who added the information did not cite any sources. Also, the death year and burial place is inaccurate.

The only verifiable fact for William Gardiner is the year of his death in 1485 sometime before the 8th October (date of probate). In his will dated the 25th Sept. 1485 he requests to be buried in the chapel on the north side of the church of St. Mildred Poultry in London. It is assumed that request was honoured. Unfortunately, the church was destroyed in the Great Fire of London in 1666.

Thank you. Can you update the birth / death dates & locations ?

Looks like Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester, Lord Chancellor is misplaced

I have updated William Gardiner's birth & death facts.

Stephen-Gardiner is recorded in older secondary sources as being a son of Wiliam Gardiner, however, no primary documentation has been found to support that relationship.

"Stephen Gardiner’s date of birth is not known, with some saying 1483 and others saying 1493 or 1497, but he was born in Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk. His father was William Gardiner (some say John Gardiner), a cloth merchant and a mercenary hired during the War of the Roses. ...."

Do we set him loose from parents?

Yes, set him loose. His father is now known to have been John Gardiner, a substantial cloth merchant of the town where he was born (see his will, printed in Proceedings of the Suffolk Archaeological Institute, i. 329), who took care to give him a good education.

http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/gardiner.htm

John Gardiner's will:

https://archive.org/stream/proceedingsbury01instgoog#page/n408/mode...

"I bequethe to Stevyn my sone XX marcs of lawfull mony of Engelond to his exhibicion to fynde hym to scole"

Erica Howton we have two curated profiles for Stephen Gardiner. One is curated by you.

Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester, Lord Chancellor

Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester, Lord Chancellor

They need to be merged.

Done.

He is not known to have been the ancestor of Thomas Gardner, "Old Planter"

I relationship locked the unknown parents of this Colonial American pioneer.

This profile looks wrong (wives & parents)

Thomas Gardner, of Little Bourton

Jessica Marie German can I trouble you to come look at Thomas Gardner, of Little Bourton and wife and children?

I'm not clear if this family is part of the Dorchester Company or not & settled in MA

A couple of resources adding brain confusion while I look for real resources

http://thomasgardnerofsalem.blogspot.com/2015/12/cape-ann-1623.html

https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Thomas_Gardner_(6)

In the profile notes for Thomas Gardner, "Old Planter"

Old notes I believe disproved but luckily not erased yet

Parents: Thomas Gardner (1565 - 1635) and Elizabeth White (1564 - 1648). Thomas Gardner Sr. may have been a descendant of Owen Tudor whose grand-daughter married a Gardner (ca 1450s, England). His mother was the sister of John White who was instrumental in the Dorchester Company. They also came to Massachusetts.

I'm questioning Thomas Gardner, of Little Bourton who married Elizabeth White as son of George Gardiner, Dean of Norwich

From http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fordingtondorset/...

29. This is confirmed by the pedigree written by Rev John White in the 1634 Visitation of Hampshire page 230 which was published and attested to by William Ryley Esq of Lancaster a Herald at Arms and published in 1903. The Manor of Little Bourton was purchased by Thomas GARDNER of London from William & Catherine MATHEWE in the year 1565 (See link provided to British History On-Line - From: 'Parishes: Great and Little Bourton', A History of the County of Oxford: Volume 10: Banbury hundred (1972), pp. 175-184.). This seems very early to be our Thomas Gardner unless he was considerably older than Elizabeth White who according to Rose Troup (page 393) is unlikely to have been born before 1582. Elizabeth's husband was probably therefore his eldest son named after him. We know from Thomas Gardner's will that his eldest son Josiah inherited the Manor in 1633 but Josiah went to the West Indies in 1650. British History also gives a reference for Josiah in 1648 as O.R.O., Misc. Pe.V/3 which might be worth further research. The Manor appears to have remained in the Gardner Family however until sold to Thomas Wyatt of Cropredy in 1716 (Ref Ibid. Pe V/10; Bodl. MS. Ch. Oxon. 2658)

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This property in Oxfordshire implies that it was bought by an earlier Thomas Gardiner of London for his family, doesnt it?

Erica,

I'm not an expert on the Gardiner/Gardners before their arrival in the Colonies. I've read all the stuff you posted, and I have seen some of it before. It does put these people tantalizingly close in terms of time and place, but I still don't see anything concrete that actually links them. Wish I had more!

Jessie

What I think is that there were two Thomas Gardiner / Gardner's who have been mixed up.

1. The brother in law of Rev White of the Dorchester company - on Cape Ann from 1623 1626, returned to England and died there in 1633. It is HE who should be considered the "Governor" (?). No descent in US I know of.

2. Thomas Gardner "old settler" of Salem, innkeeper, 8 kids, sympathetic to Quakers. Not the governor ...

Is Lion Gardiner as known son of Lionel Gardiner

There are several Thomas Gardner's from different areas. There is Thomas Gardner ancient Planter, Thomas Gardner of Bourton and Thomas Gardner of Dorset.

Thomas Gardner of Dorset: Rachel Gardners Father.
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Thomas_Gardner_%286%29
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Family:Thomas_Gardner_and_Elizabeth_W...
b. 1565

Thomas Gardner ancient Planter Thomas Gardner, "Old Planter"
b. circa 1592

Thomas Gardner of Little Bourton Thomas Gardner, of Little Bourton
b. before 1580

This profile https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Thomas_Gardner_(6)_ has children attached that are not listed in his 1632 will born in a location he is not known to have been in. Joseph and Rachel Gardner's profiles on WeRelate have old ancestral file citations on them instead of christening records or named in will etc. Do you have another source?

Thomas of Little Bourton's will is transcribed here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fordingtondorset/...

Summary:

Thomas left a will which was written on 1st Nov 1632 and proved on 27 Nov 1633 It is clear that messuages, land and meadow in Great and Little Bourton were to be sold by the Rev Robert Harris of Hanwell, William Allin [Allen] of Banbury and his wife to pay his legacies. To his eldest son Josiah he left the Mansion House and homestall in which he lived at Little Bourton although Elizabeth had a right to enjoy it until he reached the age of 24. His sons Josiah, Stephen and Timothy were to inherit a third each of his lands in Great and Little Bourton as each attained the age of 24. Other bequests were made to his daughters, referred to as Hannah French; Katherine Hopf, Mary Kingstone and his spinster daughter Martha Gardiner. His wife was sole executrix with the Rev Harris and William Allin as Overseers.

The children of Thomas Gardner, "Old Planter" (thought to have Dorset origins, parents unknown) are less certain. They are listed in his profile, births starting around 1624 in America, no daughter Rachel. He did have a son Joseph but he does not seem the same as the Joseph born 1601 in Kent https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Joseph_Gardner_(12)_ according to the obsolete Ancestral File.

Tagging Rachel Noble

Maybe we can find some real information on her ...

A researcher speculates that Rachel was a sister of Thomas of Salem (very clear that this is speculation)

http://thomasgardnerofsalem.blogspot.com/2015/06/rachel-gardner-nob...

There doesn't seem to be authority for Rachel Noble's maiden name

See http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NOBLE/1998-05/0896384813

"We have been researching Thomas Noble, Westfield, for about ten years.
We too have doubts about the Rachel Gardner info. When we first found
the name in the LDS records, we wrote to the given source and learned
that the source was a commercial genealogy company and that the company
was no longer in business. ..."

"Thomas Noble of Springfield" does not have parents or an origin place for the emigrant ancestor who married Hannah Warriner

http://www.archive.org/stream/historygenealogy00bolt/historygenealo...

"There is no actual proof that Thomas married Rachel Gardner."

Comment on his Wikitree profile

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Noble-1146

Thomas Noble

And comment on her Wikitree profile

"There is no Rachel Gardner listed among the children of Elizabeth (White) Gardner or her husband Thomas Gardner, by their biographers, either Rose Troup or Michael Russell. See sources on their profiles."

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gardner-908

From the notes here is appears that Lion as son of Lionel & Elizabeth is not certain, and

"Lionel Gardiner, however, appears not to have been the son of Rev George Gardiner as often claimed. Records at London show a Lionel Gardiner as the son of Raffe Gardiner. who may himself have been a son of Rev George by first wife Dorothy Constable. Record exists of a marriage between Dorothie Gardiner of Northumberland and Raffe Danson, but why a son of Rev George and Dorothy Gardiner would be named after Dorothy's second husband is unknown, if in fact that is what happened. "

http://https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gardiner-158

Does not look like Great Migration Project has parents for him

Name: Lyon Gardiner
Birth: 1599 Rotterdam, Holland
Emigration: 1635
First Residence Place: Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts, USA
Est Year Changed Residence: 1653
Also Resided At: East Hampton
Death: 14 Jan 1664
Ship: Bachelor
Household Members:
Name Birth Year
Lyon Gardiner 1599
David Gardner 1636
Mary Gardner 1638
Elizabeth Gardner 1641

http://www.mceas.org/gardiner/index.html

Sounds like an interesting man! Supposedly related to the Winthrops

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=136779133 has entirely different parents (no citation)

John Gardiner, gentleman, was a vestryman of St Dunstan's, Stepney, and owned the Sugar House at Ratcliffe, Middlesex. As early as 1597 the business Gardiner & Company is recorded as a sugar refinery in Ratcliffe. 

Married https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=136779604

Geni profile

John Gardiner