Adria Harris

The tree needs cleanup on geni, and i have learned that Joane Harris is not my 10th great aunt.

Have you reviewed this discussion?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~confido/captthom1...

The speculation here is that Adria Hoare was the widow of George Grimes, married to him in Virginia between 1621 (her arrival in Jamestown) & 1624 (birth of daughter Mary Harris), and that is how Capt, Thomas Harris was able to achieve the Ancient Planter designation for her in her own name, after her death and his marriage to William Vincent's widow Joan.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HARRIS-COLONIALVA/200...

For cleanup. My understanding their only validated children are Mary Ligon & Major William Harris

So propose to detach as children of Capt. Thomas Harris, Ancient Planter

Thomas Harris, of Carolina

Edward Harris

Elizabeth Warner

Thomas Harris

Correct to detach but add an Elizabeth Harris as a daughter since she, as Mrs George Archer, is a proven sister of Maj William Harris. I've know Phil for decades but I am not convinced of his assignment of a prior husband of Adria Hoare as George Grimes. It sounds good but there are several other ancient planters who died 1621-1624, especially in the Mar 1622 Indian Massacre, so picking the one that had the most proven ties to Aylesbury, seems okay through still speculative.

The discussion from Chuck Harris from 15 years ago on our Harris-VA mailing list is a cross mix of what was known and proven and what was speculated and guessed at. Most of which came before the advent of yDNA testing of living direct male Harris descendants of all Harris, including Capt Thomas Harris that proved some of the lines discussed in this discourse were wrong. This includes a son Robert Harris d1671 for Capt Thomas Harris that DNA testing has proved impossible, but there are still about 10,000 Ancestry trees that make this claim.

This Joane was age 42 on the 1624 Muster with her husband William Vincent. If Adria lived into the 1630's as now believed, then this widow Joane Vincent was 50 years old by 1630 and could not have been the mother of any of the children of Capt Thomas Harris.

Great to confirm my impression that Joane "the gossip" was too late a marriage for her to have been a mother of Harris children. Is she known to have had children from her first marriage?

Have the families of the settlers (George Grimes etc) been plotted out? Was there any other settlement Adria could have lived in to have earned the Ancient Planter designation?

The are no known children of this second wife Joan by her first husband William Vincent. My impression is that Thomas Harris was a gigolo and had slept with 6-7 of the other Muster wives as Joan had claimed, Joan being one of them. That is why her husband refused to let her testify, afraid that he would be named and ridiculed as one of those cuckolded husbands. He probably did have a close affair with Anne Bright Gurganey after her husband Edward died c1617 and possibly had an informal marriage with her which is why she bequeathed him her land when she died. Joan was probably just jealous that Thomas Harris was spending time with the other wives and not paying her enough attention. Only a few of the earlier emigrants are plotted out, as many of them were killed in the 1622 Indian Massacre for which records are scarce and unreliable. There are reports of wives and children being killed in the massacre that are known to have been captured and held for ransom by the indians and later released. It is doubtful that Adria would have lived anywhere else since she, her servant, kinswoman and half of the other male Muster inhabitants all came from Aylesbury Parish in England.

Re: Correct to detach but add an Elizabeth Harris as a daughter since she, as Mrs George Archer, is a proven sister of Maj William Harris.

I'm confused about this placement. George Archer, Jr. died 1729 at age 75, presumably his wife was born 1754 or later also, which wouldn't make her a daughter of Adria Hoare (died before abt 1636) or Joan (likely no children).

The 1688/9 marriage record says: "only sister of William Harris" but Maj William Harris had sister Mary (Harris) Ligon.

Tom,

Why don't you ask Glenn Gohr on the Yahoo Groups HARRIS GROUP 8 site. Or you could do a search of the posts at that site. Also, you might refer to ADVENTURERS OF PURSE AND PERSON VOL. II, 2004. The book is full of citations of sources, It can be found at libraries and to my knowledge , at LDS Famiily History Centers.

Roberta Schultze

I am doubly descended from Capt. THOS. HARRIS through both his daughter, Mary Harris Ligon and Maj. WILLIAM HARRIS, whenmy 3rd ggrandparent married.

ERICA,

RE. JOANE THE GOSSIP, I REFER YOU TO TGE SAME BOOK AS I DID TOM. REMEMBER, THERE WERE SEVERAL THOMAS HARRISES .

The George Archer and wife Elizabeth Harris were the parents of this George Archer II. Glenn doesn't have a particular web site for the Group 8 that I know of and he hasn't been replying to messages for over a year now or updated our Harris DNA Results page since August, so he may have died. FYI my newer APP 2010 Vol 2 book makes many changes to the 2004 version that Phil Harris convinced John Dorman to correct concerning Capt Thomas Harris . See the link to his message that Erica posted in this thread on May 9th at 3:12 PM. There were actually only two Thomas Harris in the same area of the same age, the others being in different places of different ages, all unrelated.

I'll need help for a reference on the George Archer family, and the daughter Harris who married him. I'm not finding it, just the marriage record in Chapman's marriages.

Dropping off this link, it is congruent with what we've been refining in this discussion:

https://books.google.com/books?id=orDbMGpInaQC&lpg=PA366&ot...

Virginia Immigrants and Adventurers, 1607-1635: A Biographical Dictionary
By Martha W. McCartney
Page 368

Disconnected Edward Edmund Harris, of Amelia County as son of Maj William Harris.

Disconnected Timothy Harris as son of Maj William Harris

The Thomas Harris who married Mary Jefferson is misplaced, I believe

Thomas Harris, of Henrico County

And if I follow correctly, the Thomas Harris who was the son of Lucy & Maj William Harris died unmarried:

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/localities.northam.usa.states.virgi...

It has been circulated for many years that Thomas Harris who died in Henrico Co., VA in 1729/30 was son of Major William Harris. A careful study of Henrico County records will show that this is untrue. Thomas, son of Major William Harris, died unmarried, in 1679. Thomas Harris who d. 1679 has also been shown as brother of Major William, also untrue. There is nothing to show that Major William Harris had a brother named Thomas. Two widely used published works have perpetuated these mistakes.

A number of children have been given for Major William Harris but his will clearly shows that he only had three sons – Thomas, William and Edward. There is no mention of a son Timothy nor mention of a daughter Elizabeth in his will or in subsequent records. It appears reasonable to assume that Major William Harris was married twice since Thomas was apparently somewhat older than William and Edward.

Currently we have ~68 yDNA submitters in our Harris DNA Group 8 with matching yDNA marker values and Haplo Blllod type. Some haven't traced their ancestry back but the majority of them trace to Maj William Harris sons Thomas who married Mary Jefferson, Edward who married a Gilliam and William who married Mary Giles. Family legend has always been that the 1st wife of Maj William Harris, Lucy Stewart became ill and her sister Alice came over to help take care of her and do her housework. And that when Lucy died, Maj William married her sister Alice.

Opps, my bad, it is the Edward Harris who married Elizabeth that was the son of Maj William Harris, not his son Edward Harris who married a Gilliam.

Tom,

On Yahoo Groups Glenn does have a site for Harris Group 8, It's by invitation only ,

I was invited ti hoin several years ago because my geneakogy as a descendant of Capt, Thos Harris: 1.Capt. Thomas Harr
2, Maj,×Wikkiam Harris
3, William Harris
4. David Harris
5. Gikes Hrris

5. Giles Harris
6. Obadiah Harris * who married his distant ciusibm Ekizabeth "Betty" Watkins m dtr of Silas and Phebe Watkins
7. Ammon Harris
8. Josephine Harris
9 Margaret Dilley
10 Mildred Schultze
11, me

This looks like a good resource for the Edward Harris, Sr., of New Kent County line

http://thehardyparty.com/html/fam03921.htm based on https://thehardyparty.com/harris/key_book/marie_key_book.pdf

Mrs. Key on page 7 has for children of Maj William Harris

By wife Lucy, dau who married George Archer; Thomas (1669-1692) dsp
By wife Alice, William (1673-1740), m Mary Giles; Edward (1675- ) m "Mary Giles" [SIC]

Then the modern update continues the Edward line down from his son Edward who married ... Gilliam.

So we're almost there except for my Thomas question. I don't see the Thomas Harris who married Mary Jefferson on the Group 8 DNA page

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gohrpage/harrisdn...

Picked this up from 2006

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/harris-hunters/2006-1...

1. "Ann Epps: b c 1720 VA d 1787 VA m Benjamin Harris PS VA"
This Benjamin, who left a will c.1759 Cumberland Co., VA, seems not to be a
son of Thomas and Mary (Jefferson) Harris - who also do not have an
established DNA group as far as I can tell at this time. (Another Benjamin
Harris of Cumberland Co. who left a will c.1776 Cumberland Co., VA, is
supposed to be their son.) A descendent of Benjamin Harris m.Ann Eppes has
submitted ... so far unmatched.

The Marie Key book is not recognized as being accurate. Her Edward Harris separate line is correct but does not attached him to the Edward Harris and wife Elizabeth as the son of Maj William Harris and his 2nd wife Alice Stewart who later married George Archer. There are at least one living male Harris descendant of this Edward Harris born 27 Nov 1704 from sons Edward, Braddock, Minyard and David that have tested in Group 8. All of the data that Glenn Gohr has posted on the Group 8 page and on the Yahoo Forum comes strictly from the living descendants of Group 8, not his own research and this material is exactly what he has combined into a gedcom that he placed on the RootsWeb World Connect pages under HarrisDNA, so none of it must be considered as primary evidence. He has some lines consisting of a line that start with a Group 4 that has a Group 8 son who has a Group 6 son and a Group 30 son. Glenn also failed to admit that a difference of one marker value in the first 12 markers can be a normal occurrence or a fluke mutation due to other environmental causes and not the need to place such a person in a different group. I have two sons whose father worked at the Hanford plant in Washington who have two of the 1st 12 markers with a difference in marker values from the rest of his ancestors, due to radiation exposure of their father who died at an early age of 58 in 1974. Also note that the Harris Group 8 page has not been updated in over two years.

Yes, I was hoping / presuming that DNA testing studies are ongoing.

I am pleased with the way "the Ancient Planter" family has been improved on Geni, very grateful for the information and assistance.

Thomas Harris who married Mary Jefferson is of concern, as 1) his wife has an important historic name 2) the record seems murky 3) he seems to have the largest number of descendants 4) getting into the Jefferson family somehow gets into mine (or so Geni says).

Do we have enough supporting data to argue his tree position as son of Maj William?

Thomas Harris, of Henrico County

Where would the Thomas who died unmarried belong?

I would leave the answers to those questions to Phil Harris who I feel is the dominant researcher of the Capt Thomas Harris line, though he does not descend from that line as he once claimed.

I believe I have found the correct spot for Elizabeth Archer

(Henrico Co. Rec. Bk. #2, 1678-1693, p. 232) [Henrico Ct. June 1689] "GEORGE ARCHER AS MARRYING THE ONLY SISTER OF THE WHOLE BLOOD TO WM HARRIS DEC'D petitioning for Administration: on ye deceased: estate who died as is supposed intestate with out wife or child…"

That would be the William Harris who married Mary Wells

William Harris

Their father is thought to have been Thomas Harris, of "Langfield"

Right track?

NO, the William Harris referred to is MAJ William Harris d1679 in Henrico, son of Capt Thomas Harris of Jamestown. This Maj William Harris married Lucy and Alice Stewart with Alice marrying again to George Alvis. The Thomas Harris of Langfield is said to have died unmarried and without issue. There are DNA proven descendants of this George Archer and Elizabeth (no ANNE) Harris.