Thomas Harris, Sr., of Surry - @Thomas Harris, Sr, of Surry

Some cleanup needed here:

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000035136679692?return=dupli...

(will post back when done)

This Martha Harris married Edward Harris?

Private User
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000000786854014

Does this look correct?
John Hardy, 1st.
Born: Abt. 1613, of Bedfordshire, England
Died: 1676, Isle of Wight County, Virginia
Married: Abt. 1632 Yorkshire, England
1st wife: Olive (Council) Hardy (1615 - 1675)
2nd wife: Alice (Tucker) Allen (1608 - 1686) (no issue)

No, this John Hardy was not the 1st as a John Hardy Jr never existed. His daughter Deborah never married a Bridgman Joyner and his 1st wife Olive was dead by 1670 when he married the widow Alice Tucker Allen. There is no evidence to prove that he was the son of Richard Hardy and Alice Wilson or that this Richard Hardy is the same Richard Hardy in the Visitations of Wetwang. The are other errors in the lineage of these Wetwang Hardy's which disproves any relationship to the Magna Charta Sureties. The lineage of this John Hardy thus ends with him with no proven parents.

Put the blame on Wurts and his sloppy research, :-)

"None of the pedigrees that Wurts references come with any annotations, footnotes, or endnotes; you're taking his word that they're accurate. Most hereditary organizations do not accept Wurts' books as secondary sources, so its best to use whatever he presents as a roadmap for research in other more reputable books. By contemporary standards of genealogy Wurts' work is not at all acceptable." (From an Amazon.com review by Todd Bartholomew, Oct 3, 2008) https://www.amazon.com/Magna-charta-John-S-Wurts/dp/B0006AQOTU

The "about" for John Hardy of Isle of Wight needs more work, particularly the "child list" (I like to see something fairly complete) but I've gone ahead and disconnected his parents and locked the relationships. Any curator can unlock as need be. I just think the amount of erratic information "out there" makes it too risky to compromise the hard work we've been doing.

I have never said that the Wurts references were accurate, only that they differ from what the heralds in the College of Arms had reported. Wurts was cited for many applications to the Barons of the Magna Charter chapter in Philadelphia which the Heralds report proved as trash. Their records show that there is no proof of the marriages of the Hardy males that married a female descended from any of the Magna Charta Sureties, in fact their was no evidence to support that these wives were actual children of the parents claimed that were MC descendants, and also that the Richard Hardy named in the Visitations of Wetwang was NOT the same Richard Hardy who married Alice Wilson in Bedfordshire. FYI, the Wurts book was based on the 1917 Virkus Compendium that has long been proven not acceptable, but cited by Ancestry and others as is the Wurts work.

Yet the wikitree profile for this John Hardy incorrectly displays the Visitations of Wetwang
which I have tried to get removed for some time. It is Maven's wrong assumption that I was alluding to this Wurt's Visitation of Wetwang claim that I knew was wrong four decades ago.

No, *I* was blaming Wurts. Genealogists who *think* they know what they're doing - and don't - are only slightly less trouble than the deliberate fraudsters. The more noise that gets made about untrustworthy sources, the better chance that people will wise up and start looking for more reliable ones. :-)

So why pin the trouble on Wurts who took his info from Virkus. If you try to track down the original of a claim, please be careful to do the complete research. It was the Virkus 1927 Compendium claim of a John Hardy dying in 1670 with Magna Charta Baron lineage and the 1911 Stella Hardy Pickett book that all of the misinformation on the Hardy line by adding a non existant son and his wife started which was embellished by the 1935 H Claude Hardy book. I have never found an edition of Wurts that mentions this John Hardy..

Could John Hardy be descended from the Norman Knight DeHardy? The family were Vikings who came into the area of Scotland belonging to the McTavish clan. They went into Ireland where a county is (?was) still named Hardy. From there they went into England. {I'm not trying to be troublesome.}

There is not, and never has been, a "Hardy" "County" in Ireland.

I don't know who came up with that old wives' tale, but it has been debunked over and over and over again, and people still repeat it WITHOUT EVER ONCE TAKING A GOOD LOOK AT A MAP OF IRELAND!!!

*bangs head against wall in frustration*

Hardy DNA results https://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/hardy/results

Looks like Haplogroup E - Lineage I

Patriarch page https://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/hardy/pats

John Hardy, b. Unknown, D:1676, Isle of Wight County, Virginia, USA

We've demonstrated that the Council family that the Hardy's married with originate from Wedmore in County Somerset. It would be reasonable to ascertain if there were Hardy families in that vicinity also.

No John Hardy found in Wedmore, Somerset. John Hardy is a very common name in England and Scotland though. More Hardy's need to get their DNA tested!

The Southern USA Hardy's seemed to like to think they were from this Wetwang family

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=gab&a...

"Title: Our Hardy Heritage. Author: Betty Barnes Couch Page: Page 63"

------
https://books.google.com/books/about/Our_Hardy_Heritage.html?id=I76...

B. Couch, 1998 - 330 pages
0 Reviews

George Hardy, son of Richard Hardy and Alice Wilson, was born in 1610 in Bedford County, England, and is the first family member identified in the Americas. He immigrated to Virginia before 1636. His brother, John, was born in Bedford County, England in 1613. John married Olive Council in Bedford County in 1632. They immigrated to Virginia in 1666. They had 7 children. Their descendants have lived in Virginia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Missouri, and other areas in the United States.

Richard Hardy, Esq.

Looks like Wetwang can't decide if it's in Yorkshire or Bedfordshire ... :)

The rootsweb link is another grafted tree with royal roots.

John Hardy, son of Michael Hardy of Westwang married Margaret Newlove (not Newton)
Children: William, Michael, John, Tristram, Anne, Jane, Mary, Dusilla & Emmott.
No children named Richard, George or Christine.

https://archive.org/stream/dugdalesvisitati03dugd#page/430/mode/2up

The Hardy's should ask this Wetwang farmer to do a DNA test.
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/farmer-goes-really-wild-flowers/stor...

Westwang should be Wetwang.

Yes, DNA testing with English Hardy families is the way to sort, at this point.

The https://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/hardy/results page is incorrect in that it places a son John Hardy Jr d1676 with other siblings of John Hardy d1676. There never existed a John Hardy Jr. The Wetwang line of Hardy is disproven from the Hardy line of Isle of Wight, The Richard Hardy named in this Wetwang Visitation has been proven no relation to the Richard Hardy who married Alice Wilson by the Heralds of the College of Arms in London. The 'Our Hardy Heritage' book is also in error for omitting three of the children of John Hardy and Olive Council and her entire line of Bedfordshire Hardys,

The pedigrees are user-contributed, and they can be and sometimes are wrong.

Tom, I've done a lot of research on the Council/Counsell family in the last few weeks.
I couldn't find any proof Olive was a Council. Have you found any evidence?

Yes, in the marriage records in Bedfordshire. The coat of arms shown in the profile is not correct as it is neither proven that John was the son of Richard Hardy and Alice Wilson, nor that this Richard Hardy was the same one named in the Visitations of Wetwand.as shown on all of the wikitree matches, at least not proven to the Heralds of the College of Arms in London. That is why this John Hardy is NOT named in the latest volumes of Magna Charta Surety descendants.

Tom, what is the full date of the marriage and what parish in Bedfordshire were Olive Council and John Hardy married?

That data has not been entered into my computer.

Okay, we still don't any proof Olive was a Council then. We need to find that marriage record, her baptism record, or some other primary document that links her to the Councils.

Are we sure her name was Olive?

I did some research on this and found "Cavaliers and Pioneers Vol 1" by Neal Marion Nugent, pg 569-- Mr. John Hardie (Hardy) 1150 acres Isle of Wight Co, 5 June 1666 Beginning at upper corner tree of Mathew Tomlins old land, running SSE by Wm. Westwrayers land &c.SW on Mathew Tomlins new land, then S &C.Trans. Of 23 persons: Jno White, 4, Erasmas Harris, Henry Baker, Charles Baker, Joane Baker, JNO HARDY, OLIVER HARDY, An Quimby, WILLIAM MAY, Roger Wright, Jno Edwards, Rich. Powell, Roger Peele, Jno Dockstone, Jno Cooke, Xtopr Marshamp, William Walker, Eliz. Ruffin, 2, Rich. Lannum

For Oliver, read Olive.

Could be wife, could be daughter.

land grants or “patents” were many times delayed for years, so he probably had been in the Colonies for well over 20 years at the time."

(unsourced) records have them married 1632 in Isle of Wight. That's the only way she could have been a Council, I think.