Capt. Henry - Creeches, supposedly killer by Indians in James City. Help, oh, help.

Started by Private User on Thursday, April 13, 2017
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I should add that I once found the Richard/Francis Creech story in a Beale family history. It was very short but stated that Henry came to England after his parents' deaths and lived with their uncle Beale. Again, the problem is the only source given was James Milton Creech's book. Do we want a great family history myth, or do we want an accurate, fact based, history? Even if it has a few brick walls. Sadly, the deeper I dig the more bricks I discover. Especially before 1800.

Score!!!! Got someone to help. She is now just asking if there is a DOB or a DOD for either Robert Bell or Henry Creech and she can look the information up. Do you happen to have that James?

Great job!!! It appears Robert Bell died 1656/1657 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D809210

Here is will of Henry Creech, fellow Skinner, Died about 1665 file:///C:/Users/jimcr/AppData/Local/Temp/MicrosoftEdgeDownloads/d88fbc59-30bb-43b9-a70f-8be954e662c6/PROB-11-318-97.pdf

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D841348 You can view them free. Here for Henry if you haven't already figured it out. Again, Good job!!

I was sent 3 images from them. One of them is for Robert Bell but I can not make out what it says. In the images that was sent, Henry Crich is listed as well as a Thomas Creech, Giles Creech, and Philip Creech. As well as Humphrey Bell (listed twice), Robert Bell, John Bell, Ralph Bell, and Samuel Bell.

Here is part of the response I got:

"My best guess would be that Henry Creech took a new name when arriving in the US and made up his previous circumstances. If he went to the US between 1621 and 1647 then it would be unlikely that he would be the same Henry Creech that was working for Cromwell in England in 1649. That Henry Creech could have been older and joined the company prior to 1600."

The most notable Creech in Scotland in the 1700s was William Creech, born 1745, a publisher and book seller in Edinburg. He never married or had children. I decided to research his ancestry to see if I could find a common beginning to the Creech family. His father, Rev. William Creech, was a minister in Newbattle, Midlothian, Scotland, where William was born. Rev. Creech died the year of William junior's birth. Reverend Creech is claimed to be the son of David Creech a malt merchant in Burntisland, Fife County, Scotland. claimfile:///C:/Users/jimcr/AppData/Local/Packages/microsoft.windowscommunicationsapps_8wekyb3d8bbwe/LocalState/Files/S0/3/Attachments/fifefamilyhistories%20(5)[2272].pdfed Fife County is a peninsula surrounded on 3 sides water. Creich Parish is on the north side and Burntisland is on the southern shore. Google places them 32 miles apart. I have found no ancestry for David Creech. It is possible that he or his ancestors took the last name Creech, i.e., of Creech, if they came from Creich parish upon moving south. This would be common among commoners, but not nobility. This doesn't establish proof of origins but could be a clue. At least for some Creeches. We know there are Creeches from Dorset and Somerset, England, also. Plus, generically the Gaelic origin of the word which means rocky place or hill could be almost anywhere in Britain. Still looking for puzzle pieces.

Just to nail down the time period of David Creech to William Creech Jr. William jr. was born in 1745. William sr. was born in 1700. Thus, I would assume David was born approximately between 1670 and 1680. Of course, we don't know exactly when or where he was born. 1670 would be close to the time when Henry and his wife came to America. Of course, we don't know where they came from either. Whether they are related? We may never know. 🤔

Just found Elijah Creech's (brother of John and Jonathan Creech) widow on the 1860 Lee County Virginia census. The census taker recorded her name as Nancy Scritch (actually the first c could be an "e" and he didn't dot the "i"). Then the transcriber recorded the name as Nancy Scotch. So, if you did a records search on your computer, you would never find it. I only found it because somebody else had used it as a source. Sorry, I didn't write down their name to give them credit. It is definitely her, location, no husband, first name, age, names and ages of children at home. all matches! So, we don't only have to worry about whether a record exists. We have to worry as to whether the record writer spelled the name correctly and whether the transcriber figured out what it said (right or wrong). This is not the only place where Creech was recorded as Scritch, Serich, Screech, or who knows what. Some researchers believe it was probably pronounced something like Scritch in some regions at least, like Lee, VA and Harlan, KY. Good luck with your searches.

James, I've been reading this whole thread and I've found it fascinating. I've only recently (last 3 months) began searching but have already run into the issues you and the others have stated here. I have confidently made it back to my GG grandfather James K Polk Creech. I have good documentation that far back. I have found that his father was most likely Elisha Creech from Harlan. I have census documents that show Elisha had a son named James. I dound one record on MyHeritage that has a Daniel as James' father but I can't find anything that supports that. The reason I've joined the conversation is that what I've found so far is Elisha may be Elijah's and John's brother but I haven't found proof yet. You had mentioned earlier that you had determined there was no such person as John Stephen Creech, which is who, so far, I've stumbled into as the father for Elisha. I wanted to ask what have you found that leads you to believe this person isn't real? Have you heard of Elisha in your search? The whole line kinda blows up at this point for me and starts going in circles. Any advice you can provide would be very appreciated.

Stephen, Welcome to the discussion.

Where we are confused, mind boggled, world deep in all things Creech. It's like a never ending rabbit hole with the same names in each generation for both male and females.

With websites like Ancestry, MyHeritage, Geni, FamilySearch, Find A Grave, etc....take things with a grain of salt unless documentation is provided. Try being from Harlan and letting Pine Mountain Settlement School know that some of the ancestry they have is invalid....That's a fun one.

Thank you Rose, for the welcome and your reply. I wasn't sure if anyone was following this thread any more. I haven't managed to get anywhere with Elisha. I have a book passed down from one of my family members that mentions him as James K Polk Creech's father. I've found a census that shows he had a son named James along with a few other names of children. This leads me to believe he's the correct father. JM Creech's account of the family mentions Elisha once but gives no information to go with the name. Everything I've seen shows he was from Harlan. His son James K P moved to Oklahoma to start his family. I have very strong documentation from that point on. Have you come across an Elisha from Harlan ca. 1825?

Side note, I started this jigsaw puzzle of life around the same time I started watching the TV series Justified. I thought it was really cool to find my family came from Harlan. I never knew much about my Dad's side of the family before his parents because they both died when he was very young.

Welcome Stephen. I am descended from Elijah Creech bor about 1779 and Rose is a descendant of John Creech born about 1773/4. So she knows more about the Harlan Creeches than I. They were brothers (along with Jonathan born about 1784) Elijah stayed in Lee Co. VA and John moved on to Harlan, Ky. Jonathan moved back an forth between the two. Dr. William Carroll has done some tremendous work on the Lee/Harlan Creeches. He has a website that is quite helpful back to about 1800. https://billcarroll.org/about%2Fresume%2Flibrary He is (unless he retired) a Chemistry Professor at the University of Indiana. The website has a lot of chemistry articles but there is a section devoted Creech Genealogy. The Creech materials are large downloads but well worth it. Dr. Carroll was the coeditor of Creech Country Newsletter. Creech Country was a quarterly Creech genealogy newsletter from 1991 until about 2002. They did great work to debunk some of the Creech legends such as Richard Creech being the son of a Scottish lord and being killed by Indians in Virginia. That the Robert Bell will in the J.M. Creech book "Creech Family History" has been altered from the original. That there is no evidence that Pvt. John Creech of North Carolina was ever married or had children. And much more. Which leads me to the John Stephen myth. J. M. Creech claimed that Pvt. John Creech was the father of John, Elijah, and Jonathan and that he died in the 1780s. That then John's wife joined his cousin Stephen and moved away. Somewhere between NC and Virginia she died and the boys stayed with Stephen. The only way I can see that people came up with a John Stephen Creech is that they combined the 2 into one person. The problem is Stephen Creech of Lee County Va. is not the cousin of John Creech. John's cousin was in the SC militia in 1781&2. Stephen Creech is recorded in Montgomery Co. Va in 1781&2. The Stephen Creech that J.M. Creech mentions buying land in Wilkes County, NC is the Stephen Creech from Montgomery, VA acording to a land purchase record in 1788. In a 1794/5 Wilkes Co. NC land grant to John Creech (the one that settled in Harlan, Ky.) it states the land adjoins his fathers land. That land was owned by Stephen Creech who had moved there from Montgomery Co. Va. Then Stephen, John, Elijah, and Jonathan are on records in Lee County, Va shortly after 1800. There is a Diary from the late 1800s of the Rev. John Dickey who was a district supervisor in Sourh East Ky. He had a deep interst in SE Ky history. It contains a recorded statement by Elihu Creech born in 1816 in Lee County, Va. The statement was taken by Rev. Frankin L. Creech a cousin. Elihu actual name was Elisha. the several Eli's in the family, I imagine by the time he was born people said Eli who? Anyway Elihu stated that he was born in 1816 and was the son of Elijah Creech of Lee, County Va.. That Elijah, John, and Jonathan were brothers. And that John was the father of the Harlan County, Ky Creeches. That the brothers had over 60 children total. And that the Creeches were Irish. (J.M. Creech changed it to Scots-Irish) So if John, Elijah, and Jonathan are brothers they are sons of Stephen Creech of Montgomery Co. Va. John Creech died before the 1850 census but Elijah and Jonathan were still alive. They both stated they were born in Virginia. Not North Carolina! Wife says supper's ready! Gotta go. Please excuse any errors. Thankyou.

Stephen, One additional point on the family history. In the book Biographical and Genealogical History of Appanoose and Monroe Counties Iowa, Published in 1903. Page 50. James Madison Creech,born 1834, states that his grandfather Elijah Creech was born in Virginia and his granfather was born in Ireland. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Biographical_and_Genealogical_... This again is at total odds with the Pvt John Creech of Dobbs, NC fathering John, Elijah, and Jonathan legend which appears to have been a hypothesis of John Milton Creech originating in the 1970s. James Madison Creech was the son of Stephen Creech, who was the son of Elijah Creech. I would surely think Stephen Creech would have known where his father was born and if his father's father was born in Ireland. And told his son. Records in the frontiers were poorly kept and often lost so it is not unusual to no find many 1700s records. My guess is that Stephen came to America shortly before the American Revolution. There was a large uptick in immigration from Ireland in the 15 years before the Revolution. Immigration came to a standstill during the war.

Stephen I have found the following. James K.was the son of Elisha Creech and Lavina Kilbourne. He is on the 1850 Lee County, Va census in their household. Again in their household in 1860 in Valley, Madison, Ark. I haven't found him in 1870 but in 1880 he is living in Valley, Madison, Ark married to Melvina/ (Hill) and 6 children all born in Ark. The 1890 census no longer exists. I find no later records except Find a Grave says he died before 1920 and is buried in Bryan County, Okla. Since Okla. did not become a state until 1907 I don't know how good records were. I have ancestors in Oklahoma during that period and no records. So it appears James was born in 1848/49 in Lee County, Va., the son of Elisha Creech born about 1825 in Harlan, KY (lived in Lee, VA in 1850) in Madison Co. Ark 1860,1870, and 1880 census. Died sometime after 1880. Elisha was the son of Jonathan Creech born 1784 in Virginia and Jane Blair. Jonathan moved back and forth between Lee, Va and Harlan, Ky. He died in 1852 in Lee, Va. Jonathan had at least 3 wives. Creech Country did quite a bit of research on Jonathan Creech and his brothers John and Elijah.

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