Shlema Volfberg - Conflated Families

Started by Private User on Monday, April 3, 2017
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Private User
4/3/2017 at 4:14 PM

There is an 1874 Family List for Josvainiai for: Page 427 (vs 429) – Registration # [blank] -- former Reg # 42
WOLFBERG Shloma - (father = Tsalko) - Head - age this = 37; age last - 31
with Son WOLFBERG Izrael Kalman, age 3; Wife WOLFBERG Leah, age 32; Daughter WOLFBERG Malka, age 10, and Daughter WOLFBERG Minka, age 4.

There is an 1887 Family List on LitvakSig and JewishGen – Josvainiai / Kaunas / Kaunas [Page 39 – Registration # 107 -- former Reg # 42/48 ] with the head VOLFBERG Shlema – (father = Tsalko) - age this = 49; 31 in 1868, with son VOLFBERG Kalman - age this = 15; brother VOLFBERG Movsha - age this = 31; 19 in 1875 -- Comment: "not arrived when called up for military service"; wife VOLFBERG Leah, age this = 44; and two daughters: VOLFBERG Malka - age this = 22 and VOLFBERG Minka - age this = 16

1874 and 1887 have Shlema / Shloma (father=Tsalko), born 1837-1838. Wife=Leah, born 1842-1843; son Izrael Kalman / Kalman, born 1871-1872; daughters Malka, born 1864-1865 and Minka, born 1870-1871 -same folks!

There is a 1890 Family List on LitvakSig and JewishGen – Josvainiai / Kaunas / Kaunas [Page 64 -- Reg. 12 -- former Reg. blank] -- with the head VULBERG Shema -- (father = Tsalko) -- Age this: 50 -- Comments: "Town-dweller; lived in Koshedary [Kaisiadorys] village, Ziezmariai area from 1883; came from Zasliai, Trakai district" -- -- with his wife Leia, age 45 -- son Vulf, age 10 -- son Abram, age 6 -- son Tsalka [=Betsalel], age 6 -- Daughter Mina, age 16 --

Believe that is NOT the same family as the 1874 &1887 Family List - But I believe you conflated them!

Have birth records for both a Vulf and a Betsalel that might go to one of these families:
-From Jewish Gen - LitvakSIG – Lithuanian Births – VOLFBERG, Vulf – father, g’father: Shloma, Tslalel -- mother, g’father: Leah, Vulf -- b: 23/Jan/1876 - 9 Shvat - Vilijampole, Kaunas, Kaunas -- Comments: Family from Josvainiai.
--From Jewish Gen - LitvakSIG – Lithuanian Births – VOLFBERG, Betsalel – father, g’father: Shlome, Betsalel -- mother, g’father: Leye, Yisrael -- b: 25/Jun/1880 - 28 Tammuz - “Kovno[Kaunas]”, Kaunas, Kaunas -- Comments: Father: Town dweller. Brit on 6 Av by Yosef VITKIN. Family from Josvainiai.
--- ---QUESTION: I notice one has mother Leah whose father is Vulf, other has mother Leye whose father is Yisrael -- same person probably, or ??
---- Also, ages do not match for 1890 list - so ??

No Betsalel, No Vulf listed in the 1887 List - Both Born before 1887. 1890 List has both [but ages off a bit - Vulf 10, vs 14; Tsalka 6 vs 10]
Believe 1890 List is the family Betsalel and Vulf should be on!! Believe 1887 List family has Minka, believe 1890 List family has Mina (so two different children) -- "Shema Vulberg of 1890 List " lived in Koshedary [Kaisiadorys] village, Ziezmariai area from 1883; came from Zasliai, Trakai district" -
QUESTION - given that, wouldn't they be unlikely to have been on Josvainiai 1887 List? And so - almost certainly a different person/family.

Abram 6 on 1890 list, not on 1887 list, and so far not entered on Tree. Also - same age as Betsalel/Tsalel, but no birth record found for him - not sure what that means??
rest of both families are entered as if same family.

Private User
4/3/2017 at 4:23 PM

I had PM'd the above info to Divon, and almost three months later, he responded:
"Sorry for taking a while to respond to this.
Yes, looks like you are right...
Do you want to go ahead and make the changes?
Or if you can give me specific instructions with links to the profiles that need to move, I am happy to make them"

By which point I had pretty much forgotten the details, and encouraged him to make the changes - to which he responded about a month and a half later with:
"Sorry I forgot the details of all of this.
Please feel free to correct the tree based on your information.
Cheers"

So, about a month after his last comment, I am now getting ready to actually tackle it.

Private User
4/3/2017 at 4:31 PM

Have created a second Shlema Volfberg -- Shloma Volfberg as brother of the first, and plan to separate out children, cut one off from the tree they are temporarily both attached to, and give the one cut off another Tsalko as father.

So far, that second is private because I do not want everyone rushing in to merge them before I finish. And am pausing to see if I can find any other records on them, etc.

Private User
4/3/2017 at 6:38 PM

At least three 1874 Family Lists have Former Reg. = 42, Josvainiai/Kaunas/Kaunas - including the one above for Shloma plus

one for Tsalel, with son, Movsha, plus wife and a daughter -- -- Page 429 – Registration # [blank] -- former Reg # 42 -- WOLFBERG Tsalel – (father = Wulf) – Head – age this = 70 [=>b: circa 1804]
[NOTE: Tsalko = Tsalel - two variations of same name!!]

and one for Page 601 (vs 429 or 427) – Registration # [blank] -- former Reg # 42 -- WOLFBERG Leyb - (father = Tsalko) - Head - age this = 38; age last = 22 - with Leyb's children and wife

NOTE: Tsalko's children Mortkhel Rubin and Wulf not accounted for by above Family Lists. All others entered by Divon are.
Mortkhel Rubin tied to same Reg. 42 on Passport Records and 1887 Family List.
Do not see clear tie to this family so far for Wulf!!

Private User
4/3/2017 at 6:51 PM

Among the 1887 Family Lists for Josvainiai / Kaunas / Kaunas are also multiple with former Reg including #42 -

including the one mentioned in the first post, for Shlema son of Tsalko - which includes his brother Movsha who, as mentioned just above, appeared in the 1874 List with their Father - plus children and wife of Shlema

plus Page 39 – Registration # 106 -- former Reg # 42/ 807
VOLFBERG Mortkhel Rubin – (father = Tsalel) – Head – age this: 46; 18 in 1858 plus Mortkhel Rubin's children and wife

plus Page 38 – Registration # 105 -- former Reg # 42/664
VOLFBERG Leyba – (father = Tsalel) – Head – age this: 51; 23 in 1858 plus Leyba's children and wife

Private User
4/3/2017 at 7:04 PM

So - if I am correct that two families headed by Shloma / Shlema / Shema have been conflated, then want to be sure the one for the 1874 & 1887 list is the one left as descended from Wulf to Tsalko to him, with him having as siblings those mentioned above as being former Reg 42, father = Tsalko / Tsalel -- -- and the other is the one that gets cut off.

Private User
4/4/2017 at 8:25 PM

See I was wrong - Abram is age 7, not 6 same as his brother -

1890 Family List -- Josvainiai / Kaunas / Kaunas -- Page 64, Reg. # 12 [former Reg. # blank] -- "Town-dweller; lived in Koshedary [Kaisiadorys] village, Ziezmariai area from 1883; came from Zasliai, Trakai district" --
has
VULBERG Shema -- father=Tsalko -- Age: 50
----------------Leia ----- wife -------------- Age: 45
----------------Vulf ------- son ------------- Age: 10
----------------Abram --- son -------------- Age: 7
----------------Tsalka ---- son ------------ Age: 6
---------------- Mina ----- dau ----------- Age: 16

1887 Family List -- Josvainiai / Kaunas / Kaunas -- Page 39, Reg.# 107, Former Reg.# 42/48
has
VOLFBERG Shlema -- father=Tsalko -- Head -- Age 49
---------------- Leah ------ wife --------- Age 44
---------------- Kalman -- son ---------- Age 15
---------------- Malka ---- daughter ---- Age 22
---------------- Minka ---- daughter ---- Age 16
---------------- Movsha -- brother ----- Age 31

Private User
4/4/2017 at 8:34 PM

We have:
VULBERG --vs-- VOLFBERG
Shema ----vs---- Shlema
Leia --------vs---- Leah
Mina -------vs --- Minka
Do any of these differences matter?
Or is each pair almost certainly the same name?

In both Family Lists,
Shema / Shlema is the son of Tsalko,
and is the husband of Leia / Leah
who is 5 years younger than he is

Private User
4/4/2017 at 8:47 PM

On the other hand -
1) both Shema / Shlema and Leia / Leah have aged only one year from 1887 to 1890

and way more meaningful to my mind -
2) the 1890 Family List includes FOUR (4) children of Shema - each of whom, given the age listed, was alive at the time of the 1887 list -
and of those FOUR at most ONE is listed on the 1887 list - Mina / Minka - and she is the exact same age in 1887 and 1890

not as powerful, to my mind, but still -
3) the 1887 Family List has Three (3) children listed
and again, at most one appears on the 1890 List --
tho from this direction - Malka at 22 in 1887 might have married and left the family
and possibly Kalman at 15 in 1887 might have gone out on his own by 1890
and/or either or both of them might have died

Private User
4/4/2017 at 9:10 PM

The Birth Records mentioned in the First Post above (in the 6th paragraph) confuse things further.

The Vulf son of Shloma son of Tsalel born 23 Jan 1876 would have been 11 at the time of the 1887 Family List - so if he lived and belonged to that family, definitely should have been listed.
In 1890, he would have been 14, not 10 as is listed for the family in the 1890 Family List -- is that big a discrepancy likely?

The Betsalel son of Shlome son of Betsalel born 25 June 1880 would have been around 7 at the time of the 1887 Family List - so if he lived and belonged to that family, definitely should have been listed.
In 1890, he would have been about age 10 - not the age 6 listed for Tsalka - so again, is that big a discrepancy likely? Age 6 vs 10 is more obvious than 10 vs 14.
On the other hand - the discrepancy seems to be the same in years for both - is that meaningful?

Private User
4/6/2017 at 4:48 PM

Have separated the two families. Have left the two profiles for Shema/Shlema/Shloma as brothers, since we know they both had the father Tsalko; Divon assured me that was not a common name. Fear we have no way to know which, if either, or both, really attaches here - so going, at least for now, with both do.

Have left Mina Mina Volfberg with the Family for the 1890 Family List and created a new profile for Minka Minka Volfberg for the Family for the 1874 & 1887 Family Lists.

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