Joseph (Brown) Browne - Children of Joseph (b 1580) and Sarah Brown of Southampton

Tagging Private User - your opinion much valued.

https://www.ancestry.com/media/viewer/viewer/0dd511cf-394f-42e3-aac...

Sailed on ship Mary & John of London, Robert Sayres, Master, on 23 Mar 1633 with husband James and brother-in-law Nicholas, and with others took the oath of supremacy and allegiance. The ship was detained in the Thames. Eldest daughter of Joseph Brown of Southampton.

On 28 June 1664, "Sarah Noyes late wife of Mr. James Noyes late teacher of the church of Newbury ... and his sole executrix" sold to "Curmac Haines of the abovesaid town ... all of that parcel of upland lying & being in Nubury in the field of dividend land containing by estimation thirty-six acres ... as it is now laid out being my late husband's portion of dividend land as also my brother Mr. James Browne's portion of dividend land" [ILR 3:147].

After days of searching and getting the same response "Sarah Brown, Eldest daughter of Joseph Brown"
I had to step back and take another look at what we were doing.....I was searching based on the statement found in "The descendants of Richard Brown" where it states "Richard came to America with his wife, brother George,(NOT RELATED) sister Sarah, and brother-in-law James Noyes) on the ship "Mary and John" which sailed out of Southampton, England 1633/34. His brother Michael (and father Joseph IS HER FATHER) remained in England.

sister Sarah, as you had suspected and the Grave people had said along with the Noyes SHE is not related to Richard...THIS also removes Joseph from Richard and George as Father.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hatch/fam00152.html

This not the only ref I found.
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.genealogy.medieval/...

http://www.irafears.com/allindividuals/pafg554.htm

Who ever did 'The Descendants of Rich Brown) made the same assumption that because they were on the ship together they must be related.
Also each time I read S. was eldest Dau. of Joseph it should have jumped out at me..NO MENTION of Ric. or Geo.
I did find mention that George was married, wife no name, left a will, was a Carpenter, was interested in the  mill in Salisbury, Mass
DB

I agree with @Erica Howton; the only link between Sarah, George, Richard and Michael Brown does seem to be the document she cited. I couldn't find any other document that mentioned all of them as being siblings.

Unfortunately I no longer have access to the NEHGS records, nor do I have access to world records through Ancestry, so my ability to see records from England and/or the Netherlands, as well as some records from early New England, is almost nonexistent or limited.

I did find 2 separate trees for @Richard Brown, of Newbury on MyHeritage. They are:

Parents: Sir Walston and unknown; siblings George and Michael
https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-1-234643701-1-500392/ric...

Parents: John and Sarah Ann; siblings Sarah, George and private
https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-1-288923261-1-506968/ric...

I don't think either of these proves or disproves a relationship or lack thereof. I post them here hoping that they will allow someone with access to databases I can't reach somewhere to start looking.

I will continue to do further research and will post here if/when I find anything else.

Posted above before I saw post from @Douglas Russell Brown

Good catch!

I've added Unk Brown as parents of George and Richard Brown of Newbury and Michael Brown of England.

I haven't yet gone into the original sources, to find links and them to the profiles, but there's a good list of citations to explore here:

http://www.noyesgenealogy.net/getperson.php?personID=I49154&tre...

Hello Sherry...The first [ https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-1-234643701-1-500392/ric...] is mine Douglas Brown...
the other [ https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-1-288923261-1-506968/ric...}
just repeats the problem I stated....

I believe Sarah had a father named Joseph with wife named Sarah AND Richard also had a father named Joseph with a wife named (either Sarah or Christianna or Christiana) ..NOT the same family, not related....this is how the confusion started..thinking they were the same. I find no last name for either Wives. Edith NO LAST NAME or Christiana NO LAST NAME..some say Holt???? for Edith...and some say Hibbert for Christiana????

Hello Erica "the Disconnectrix" Howton

Yes the Noyes have good resources And I have been down most of them.

As of yet I have not found any thing for Walston.

DB

Here's Walston SIR Browne

The reference is from the old Ancestral File: 1S8N-MP

These are often garbled. You could look it up on FamilySearch.org, and then try to track the "submitted pedigree" history from earlier days of computerized genealogy. Which may yield some sort of clue as to where the garble comes from. Often they are "time travelers" (typo's for people in the 13th century, or the 20th).

As you know, it is unlikely that the father of George & Richard Brown of Newbury was a "Sir."

Geni shows Richard Browne of Newbury with wives Edith Holt and Elizabeth Greenleaf. So that could be the "Edith Holt" you mention, she wouldn't be the wife of his (unknown) father, I don't think.

I don't know the "Holt" surname comes from for Richard's first wife Edith. The Great Migration has her as parents unknown. The Noyes site I've been using doesn't cite her parents.

They do reference this source:

[S744] Periodical-The Essex Antiquarian. Vol. XIII, p.168 "Descendants of Richard Brown of Newbury"

Maybe there's a speculation?

Meanwhile I disconnected her from Holt parents and gave her "unknown parent" placeholders.

I also uploaded the Great Migration article on Richard Brown to his profile, check the "media" tab. As expected, "origins unknown."

I've found your Sir Walston Brown. Sounds like a "family tradition" or conflation of Browns by a Mrs. Harriet Brown Dow in 1920. She wrote about the Browns here:

Belcoda: A Biographical and Historical Story of a Country Church, 1811, 1870 Harriet Brown Dow C.F. Milliken, 1920 - 115 pages

https://books.google.com/books?id=Y0sVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA21#v=onepag...

Mr. Brown was of the purest Yankee ancestry, dating back to the Mayflower on the maternal side; through his father he was directly descended from Richard Browne of Southampton, England, supposed to be a descendant of Sir Walston Browne, a young Knight of King Henry VIII's household, he came to Boston with that distinguished group of Puritans in the Mary and John, early in the year 1634. They halted first at Ipswich, the following year moving onward and founding the historic town of Newbury, named for the home city of their spiritual leader, Rev. Thomas Parker. In the early history of this important town the Brown family took a leading part. ....

I will note that the profile for sir Walston is seriously time traveling, as the 8th Henry died 1547, some 20 years before the profile was born.

Here's a more reliable source for the claim of descent (not mentioning intervening generations however)

From The New England Historical & Genealogical Register, Volume 3 page 374

https://books.google.com/books?id=UATv4fSk6xkC&lpg=PA374&ot...

REV. SAMUEL BROWN, OF ABINGTON.
[Communicated by Mk. Cybus Orcutt.]

The following was copied from an ancient manuscript volume, which belonged to Rev. Samuel Brown, the first minister in Abington, Plymouth County, Mass. ...

* Rev. Samuel Bbown, youngest son and child of Joshua and Sarah (Sawyer) Brown, and grandson of Kichard. Sen., and Edith Browne, of " Ould Newberry,'- was bom in that ancient town, if we may venture to believe his own statement, Sept. 5, 1687, though the able historian of Newbury assigns the 4th, and not the 5th, of September, for his natal day. He is supposed to have been descended from one "Sir Walston Brown, a young knight of King Henrv 8th Household." Combining in his own person the vocations of Lawyer, Physician, and Clergyman, Mr. Brown's services seem to have been eminently useful and acceptable for the greater part of thirty-five years. But the latter years of his ministry were embittered by a tedious controversy, originating in the disaffection caused among a number of his parishioners, by his opposition to Whitfield; a controversy, which was only terminated by his voluntary resignation of his pastoral charge, in the month of August, 1749. He survived his dismission hut a few days, and died of a fever, Sept. 12, 1749. His widow, the daughter of Matthew Pratt, of Weymouth, became the wife of Josiah Torrcv, Esq. — See Coffin's Newbury, pp. 296-7, 332; Hobart's Abington, pp. 89— 44, 68—71; Am. Quarterly Register, VIII. 144, 149. — Ed.

"Coat of arms in possession of descendant .... Sir Walston knighted by the Spanish King ..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=sZgUAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA68&ots...

http://www.kateemersonhistoricals.com/TudorWomenD.htm

ALICE DAVY (d.1519+)
Alice Davy was a nurse to Margaret Tudor in May 1490. Hester W. Chapman in The Thistle and the Rose: The Sisters of Henry VIII says that Margaret's head nurses, Alice Davy and Alice Bywimble, had been pensioned off by November 1494. Later, Alice was a gentlewoman to Queen Catherine of Aragon. On January 5, 1519, she was granted an annuity of £10.

I have been in contact with Historical Society in Wiltshire, Eng. Calne & Devizes...have sent researcher all info I have..asking if they can sort out William and family relationship.???maybe???

As to Rev. Brown claim of relation to Sir. Walston Brown young Knight of Henry VIII.. Coat of Arm held by descendent....IF true would not that coat of Arms have been shown by some one by NOW...I found this to be false, NO coat has been found or kept by anyone....AS FAR AS I KNOW.....NOR has it been talked about by any Browns since he told the story. AND non of the Browns in the YDNA group has ever mentioned......good story...

Here is what I sent:
I have followed my family tree to one Richard (Brown, Browen, Browne) depending on which researcher did then entrée in which year. He and his brother left Southampton on the Mary and John bound for Mass. 1633/4. From here Doc's show a Richard Browen christened in Calne 31 Oct 1613 to a father William. Other doc's show ; his brother George christened 08 Sept 1611 Calne, his will said they had a brother Michael and a father left in England. I have followed this and came up with what looks like their family???
IF they are Great..if not and there is no way to find said family,,OK too. I have had researchers try to put three different Brown families together which they are NOT at least as far as historical records go...but if there is hard evidence to prove me wrong show me.

Here is what I have, what I know and may not know....and may be wrong???

I have been researching my Brown family line for about 3-4 years now. With aid of FamilyTree YDNA brownsoceity.org and our family history I have been able to focus in on Wiltshire Co. around Calne. I have learned and seen the lack of documented evidence in this time period.....They were not of the Gentry class, Gentleman class??? poor I do not think so....I say that because of the cost to make a trip to Mass in 1633/34 and the to set up homestead....5 pound sterling each was a lot, and indentured they were not.....Richard made freeman 1st year after arrival. George did not make it until he married...….SO did Michael and William survive, or did the family die out with time???

What I know is; "The Great Migration" Immigrants to New England 1634-1635 Vol I A-B Anderson, Sandborn jr. & Sandborn Great Migration Study Project New England Historic
Genealogical Society Boston 1999...George Brown pg: 418 - 420 in comments : "In the parish register of Calne, Wiltshire appear the baptism of George Brown, son of William, in September 1611 and of Richard Brown son of William, on 31 October 1613 on pg: 432 - 435 Marriage; (1) by about 1638 Edith ______,
Georges will make ref: to Richard and my father and brother Michael.

We know they sailed on the "Mary and John" from Southampton, 1633/4 took the oath supremacy and allegiance, We know from there wills they could read and write. We know Richard had done well for himself and his family by list of offices he held and size of his estate; and George was a carpenter had interest in a Mill....this would indicate they were not illiterate.

According to the "Essex Antiquarian, Vol. XIII, 1909, Sidney Perley, Editor, Salem, Mass., pg 168, "a man named Brown, living in 1642, probably in England, was the father of five children: (I) George, a carpenter who lived in Newbury and was interested in the Mill at Salisbury, His wife, whose name is not known, was living May 26, 1642, when he made his will.
Confirmation of the above is also found in "Columbus Smith's, Report to the Brown Association of the United States, 1868 pg. 114;

The above is known....

What I have pieced together through research, BUT unable to confirm are if the two brothers are related to those I found in the FamilySearch.org data base.????

The Brown name (Browne, Brown, Browen) spelled by those researching it or thought to make it correct and then there are all the other variations.

George Browne; birth abt. 1610, Malford, Southampton, England. death: Newbury, Essex, Mass. USA
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-saints (LDS) "International Genealogical Index (IGI), database, FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:19KXY-RSW : accessed 2017-04-07), entry for George Browne.

ALSO:
George Browen, Residence: Calne, Wilshire, England. Christened date: 08,Sept. 1611 Calne, Wiltshire, England father name: William Browen.
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" database, FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1N6M4-WMH : 30 Dec. 2014, William Browen in entry George Browen) citing CALNE, WILTSHIRE, ENGLAND. index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of UTAH, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,279,348. Index Project batch # C39063-1 System Origin England-VR GS film # 1279348 ref# 2:2P20NM3

Richard Browen: Residence: Calne, Wiltshire, England Christened date: 31 Oct. 1613 Calne, Wiltshire, England father name: William Browen.
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" database, FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1NRGB-32Z : 30 Dec. 2014, William Browen in entry Richard Browen) citing CALNE, WILTSHIRE, ENGLAND. index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of UTAH, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,279,348. Index Project batch # C39063-1 System Origin England-VR GS film # 1279348 ref# 2:2P20VRX

Michael Browne: birth, 20 Sept. 1612 Durnford, Wiltshire, Eng. Father William Browen, Batch # P01399-1, ORIGIN ENG. - ODM film # 082411 IT6, FHL Micro # 0824211 IT

William Browne; birth abt. 1586, Salterton, Durnford, Wiltshire, Eng.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-saints (LDS) "International Genealogical Index (IGI), database, FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1: MB3N-QYT : accessed 2017-05-31), entry for William Browne. IGI Information Batch Code 1 IGI Film # 455042

ALSO:
William Browne: Marriage yr. 1607, Date: 14 June 1607 place Devizes, St. John the Baptist, Wiltshire, Eng.
Wiltshire marriages index 1538-1933 transcription: URL of this page: https ://search.findmypast.co.uk/record ? id=PRS/WILT/MARS/BH/0072385/1
Spouse name: Agnes Cucksie

Agnes Cucksie marriage 1607, William Browne, Wiltshire Eng. Devizes, St. John the Baptist 14 June 1607
Phillimore's marriages for Wiltshire Transcription;
Wiltshire marriages index 1538-1933 transcription: URL of this page: https ://search.findmypast.co.uk/record ? id=prs%2fwilt%2fph%2f077426%2f2

Agnes Cucksie
Geni World: Residence: Calne, Wiltshire, Eng. birth: circa: 1586, Devizes, Wiltshire, Eng. Spouse: William Browen June 14, 1607 Devizes, Wilts. Eng. death circa: 1640, Calne, Wilts, Eng.

Siblings: of Richard & George
Grace Browen: Residence: Calne, Wilts, Eng. Christened date 08 July 1610 place Calne, Wilts, Eng. father William Browen
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" database, FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1NRGB-QJZ : 30 Dec. 2014, William Browen in entry Grace Browen) citing CALNE, WILTSHIRE, ENGLAND. index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of UTAH, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,279,348. Index Project batch # C39063-1 System Origin England-VR GS film # 1279348 ref# 2:2P20K5N

Anne Browen: christened 1606, Calne, Wilts, Eng. father William Browen
FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org FHL microfilm 1,279,348. Index Project batch # C39063-1 System Origin England-VR GS film # 1279348 ref# 2:2P2026IX

William Browen (jr) : Residence: Calne, Wilts, Eng. Christened 24 April 1608 Place. Calne, Wilts, Eng
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" database, FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1NRGB-QJ8 : 30 Dec. 2014, William Browen in entry William Browen) citing CALNE, WILTSHIRE, ENGLAND. index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of UTAH, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,279,348. Index Project batch # C39063-1 System Origin England-VR GS film # 1279348 ref# 2:2P20CGH

William Browen jr. Married: Elyzabethe Hatherell 22 June, 1625 Calne, St. Mary, Wiltshire, Eng.
Wiltshire marriages index 1538-1933 transcription: URL of this page: https ://search.findmypast.co.uk/record ? id=prs%2fwilt%2mars%2fbh%2f0200812%2f1
and
Wiltshire marriages index 1538-1933 transcription: URL of this page: https ://search.findmypast.co.uk/record ? id=r_ 843977815%2f2
Elyzabethe Hatherell: "England Marriages, 1538-1973" database, FamilySearch (https:// familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1NXM1-Y9X : 30 Dec. 2014, William Browen in entry Elyzabethe Hatherell 1625) citing CALNE, WILTSHIRE, ENGLAND. index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of UTAH, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,279,348. Index Project batch # M32082-7 System Origin England-VR GS film # 1279348 ref# 2:3V5JH6F

POSSIBLE?????
I do not know if this person is William sr. or jr.????? or any one else???
WILTSHIRE BURIALS INDEX 1538-1991 transcription: William Browen yr. 1639, 15 Jan. 1639 Trowbridge, St. James, Wiltshire, Eng. Parish Reg.
URL of this page: https ://search.findmypast.co.uk/record ? id=prs%2fwilt%2fburs%2fbh%2f0604543
and
URL of this page: https ://search.findmypast.co.uk/record ? id=prs%2fwilt%2fburs%2fbh%2f1070965

I ALSO KNOW?????

This William Browne, Browen, Brown / Richards father born circa 1586 in NOT RELATED to William Browne born circa: 1550 died April 18, 1581 who's wife Evelyn b: 1554 d: 1580 after giving birth to son Joseph born 1580...William b:1550 d:1581 married same day he died to Mary Hall...April 18, 1581.....He had no ISSUE from this marriage. She was step-mother to Joseph, this was her purpose.

I also know Sir. George Browne, beheaded 1483 his wife Elizabeth had ONLY three children per her will. 1st. Edward (by Robert Poynings) 2nd Mathew and Mary (by Sir. George)
Mathew son Richard son William, son William or Richard are not related to William 1550 whos father Simon 1504 father George 1472 line.... as some want to believe.

These are three different Brown lines.......UNLESS hard evidence proves differently...

Doug Brown

I don know...I am thinking, maybe take William father to Richard, put him back the way we found him...A name in a book No, bc; Date, No dc: date, just a name in a "parish registry" and in another searchers book "the great migration" and Georges will "father" leave Michael as well just a name in a will.... There is no way to connect any of them with proof, No doc. paper, will to say This one is this one and he went here on this date etc....
the family I found, that MAY connect, or may not connect, because their data came from the LDS data base...and my not be factual....There is NO proof to the Birth dates of Richard and George either....or where.....just a page in a parish registry on a date that say (A) Richard and (A) George were christened on this date.....we do not know when they were born????? We do not know if they are the same person who were on the "Mary and John" …….AND We cold just move dates around and names to connect the dots...…...and IF we reconstruct enough we can change history to what ever we want...and we can feel good about it...…
Combined we have re hashed doc's to the point of what....-0- effect...….

I do not know I may just drop there family back to where we found them...

I have taken the unfirmed person, Agnes, Anne, Grace, William jr. out of my Heritage tree. and adjusted b: date to reflect unknown as Christening date are not birth date..could have been 6 months or several years before the event. So Richard and George and Michael BC is unk….William (Father) is an unk for B; & D; dates as well as place of birth and wife as well......Georeg may or may not be the eldest child..IF we look at custom, naming the first born after the father then George could not be, but no way to know that. WE do not know who the father of William is????…..FROM birth and marriage date I have seen for the time period,,,young men marry 25-30 years after birth. So the first born would be about 31 years out so to speak. Also girls have been know to be married off at young age but>>>BUT....child bearing years for humans has not changed.....much.....15-18 yr's, they are not really ready?? 20 yr's makes better time. and after 40 it is menopause...so that cuts out those dates... SO when I look for who I also look at the timing.....

The following is from Wiltshire Eng.

From: Archive <Archive@wiltshiremuseum.org.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 7:25 AM
To: DnTB1523@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: In search of Family

Dear Douglas Brown,

Thank you for your enquiry about possible family members in the seventeenth century.

We happen to hold transcriptions of parish records for many parishes in Wiltshire though this is not a complete record either in terms of chronology or including every parish.

From the transcriptions we hold I am able to confirm that a Richard Browen – October 1613 and a George Browen – September 1611 were baptised in Calne and were both the sons of a William Browen.

This I already knew from familysearch.org records Michael I think was Baptized in Durford….you did not mention William so you have no records on him: birth death, parents ect..

I searched the Calne register from 1600-1620 but could find no evidence of a Michael Browen/Brown or Browne being baptised in Calne during that time.

I can further confirm that William Browne and Agnes Cucksie were married at St John’s church Devizes on June 14th 1607. ​This I also knew from familtsearch.org records

These transcriptions do not give us all the information that a current birth certificate gives and therefore I am unable to give any more information on Agnes Cucksie or addresses.

We do not hold a complete set of parish records but I believe that copies of all parish records (that exist) are held at the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre, Cocklebury Road, Chippenham SN15 3QN. Tel 01249 705500 www.wshc.eu. Hopefully they would be able to assist you in your research.
I have no experience of pursuing genealogical links so I cannot help on how you would post a question to further your searches.

Kind Regards
​Thank you for your help
Doug Brown.

James Kay
Library and Archive Volunteer

Archive & Library
Wiltshire Museum
41 Long Street
Devizes
SN10 1NS
Telephone: 01380 727369

The above, although confirms Richard and George to father William, it in NO WAY connects Richard on "Mary and John" to the other Richard in Calne.....what they do confirm is that the Richard, George and William in "The Great Migration" are documented in Calne parish registry.

They do not have any thing on William..B; D; Place: mother; Father as yet. ect…Birth records do not show that information.

They do show what we knew that "A" William Browne was married in at St. John's church 1607 to Agnes Cucksie which again we knew.... BUT a big BUT:
IS the Browen the same as the Browne or are they different family's?????

We all see this and discount it and assume it is the same name spelled differently by researchers and or clerks because English spelling was not standardized fully then.
IN the case of Mary (Hall) she married several Brown's each with a different spelling.

SO we could conclude Browen father to Richard, George and Michael is NOT husband
Browne to Agnes Cucksie????

I my self am guilty of interchanging the names, and I should not have by the looks of it..SO Browen appears to be Name of record in Calne, Wiltshire.....It also appears the name of Richard and George on "Mary and John" reads Browne...not the same???? and in Ipswich/ Newbury Mass. it is Browne..on the Bronze plaque it reads Brown....On the old map of Newbury 1635 it show property owners name of Brown. in the List of Freeman
Rich. Browne May 6, 1635 second to last on page. In the Descendants of Richard Brown(e) his birth date is listed 1614 which can not be, he was baptize 1613.....Georges will shows Browne....
??????????????????

From: Ann Bridewell <bridewellann@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 11:39 AM
To: Douglas Brown
Subject: Re: Msg

Dear Douglas

The parish registers for Wiltshire were transcribed by us, and about five years ago Ancestry digitised the parish registers and they are on their site.We are putting our records on Findmypast. For some reasons unknown to me Familysearch were denied access to them by the Local History Centre at Chippenham.

I checked Durnford Parish Registers and found the Michael baptised in Durnford on 20th September 1612 was the son of Valentine of Salterton.

I checked the Calne Registers and confirm the Museums findings for Richard and George. We give them copies of our registers.

Regards

Ann

OK....that is not the Michael I thought he was as mentioned in "The Great Migration"
He becomes just a Name now....

Richard Brown(e) is the one listed on the ship roster/manifest of the ship "Mary and John" that came to Mass. 1633/34
His name Rich. Brown(e) is listed on May 6, 1635 in the book "List of Freeman" page 93 in Mass.
also all children of Edith and Richard are Brown(e).
Georges name on his "Will" is Brown(e)

In "The Great Migration" they use Browne and Brown interchangeably….

They show George Brown and Richard Brown as persons from Calne, Wilts. Eng. William as father.

Would this indicate two separate family's of Brown (e) ' s.

This important.....IF Browen is in Calne then Where did Browne come from and who was father? George said in his "will" Father (no name) and brother Michael.
that sets things back further because Who was father?????

Those wanting to connect to William Browne b:1550 d: 1581 using William Browen (Richard father) of Calne as confirmed by Wilts. museum, have a paroblem Two different names two different family's. ??
Is that right?????

There has to be a reason for different names..ie: to keep everyone separated...I mean there are Brownes today that are not my relation, and Browning as well????

DB

Dear Douglas
There was no standardised spelling at that date and so variation in the spelling of surnames was common, and does not mean that they are not the same family.
I can confirm there is a record of a Michael Browne baptised in Durnford in on Sep 20 1612 to a Valentin of Salterton (a hamlet in Durnford parish).
All the parish registers for Wiltshire are available on Ancestry.co.uk if you would like to continue your research or confirm the records you have found on FamilySearch. Your local library may provide free access if you do not have a subscription.
Kind regards

Naomi Sackett
Community History Advisor
Wiltshire and Swindon Archives
Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre
Cocklebury Road, Chippenham SN15 3QN
Tel: 01249 705500
Email: naomi.sackett@wiltshire.gov.uk
Fax: 01249 705527
Web: www.wshc.eu
Follow Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre

Researcher for Wiltshire Devizes Historical Society...

Ann;

sorry to be a pain..... But if as Naomi says "no standard spelling" then why all the different types, If not to keep separate families of the same name???? and lessen the confusion????
OR is that the scape goat for research, just lump them all into one box. Too difficult to sort out.

To date we know, Michael Browne born in Devizes to Valentine of Salterton, NOT William of Salterton. Which means LDS records I have are no good.

We know the Browen of Calne MAY be the Browne who went to Mass. and NO way confirm that.

And ALL Brown names are the same no matter how it is spelled, it is the same person??? So the Sir. George Browne d: 1483 line is the same Browne line No matter which Browen, Browning, Brownlee etc. connects to it??? because there is no standardized spelling????

She just wanted to brush me off, right???

IF you do not think this search is going to produce a satisfying result say so, do not drag it out......

Sorry, I am pain...ARE THEY TWO DIFFERENT FAMILIES?????????

DB

IF...IF Richard BROWEN in Calne, (as listed in LDS familysearch.org.) IS NOT the same Richard BROWNE on the "Mary & John" then WE do NOT know the Christening date for Richard on the ship, Just his date of death. HE and George could be older than we think. And have been successful enough and earned the passage and funds for the trip with out a fathers help.
He may have been in Southampton area for some time.??????YDNA still says they came from Wiltshire co. I can not change that.

I feel like I am talking to myself.

Douglas Russell Brown@ I thought someone posted they had found a name change from Browne to Browen? I might be wrong...I believe the Calne registry..