Unroch III de Friuli, marchese di Friulia - Disconnecting children

Dear Justin,
This part is clear based on Hlawitschka.
St.Adalhard von Burc +±875 lekenabt Cysoing x±854 Swanaburc
Berengar, Graf der Hattenhuntare ±855->892 (see Hlauwitschka)

Berengar von Namur 885->933 x Symphoria von Hennegau 900-?

Robert I von Namur 922->956 x Irmgar von Verdun 930

Albert I von Namur 955-<1011 x Adelheid von Niederlotheringen

Two other discusion points are:
Gisela di Friuli 855->918 x Waltfred von Verona the question is the parents of this Gisela an other Gisela 845-863 dr. of Evrard de Ternois is Nonne de Bresia.
Next point Engeltrud di Friuli 836-870 x Heinrich von Babenberg is she a dr. from Evrard de Ternois ?

Dear Justin this is of your possible line and so yuo have the important St.Evrard de Ternois.

(3) Gisela of Cysoing 819 x
St.Everard Hertog van Friuli 810 - 866

(4) Koning Berengarius I van Friuli 840-924 x Bertila d’ Spoleto 860-915

(5) Gisela del Friuli 880-910 x
Adalbert d’Ivrea 880-923

(6) Berengar II Koning van Italy 900-966 x Willa d’Arles +963

(7) Urraca de Lombardia-Ivrea (d’Este) 965-1007 x Gonzelon de Verdun

(8) Regelindis de Loraine 1000 – 1064 x Albert II comte de Namur 997-1064

(9) Albert III de Namur 1035-1102 x
Ida von Saksen-Billung 1030-1102

(10) Henri I de Namur 1070-1138 x Mathilde van Limburg 1093-1148

(11) Mathilde de Namur 1115-1169, gavin de la Roche en Ardennes x Nicolaas ‘Le Beau’ d’Oisy 1129-1174

(12) Jacques d’Avesnes (Crusader) 1155-1191x Alix de Guise 1159-1185

(13) Bouchard IV, seigneur d’Avesnes 1182-1244 x Marguerite II, gravin van Vlaanderen 1202-1280

(14) Jan I d’Avesnes, graaf 1218 -1257x
Aleid van Holland 1210-1284

(15) Jan II d’Avesnes, graaf 1247-1304 x Philippa van Luxemburg 1250-1311

Geachte Justin,
If you take "Theodorus Nicolaas Maria (Theo) van dijk 1941 Geni" you can come to me with a private contact, and give your private e-mail. Later I can give you normal Word or PDF files. You know for me English is a third language with mistakes All the best Everard...

Let us know if there are specific changes you want to see.

Geachte Justin, Thanks for waht you did til this moment. The key points, I set before.
For you from Aleid van Holland I know 4 lines til Karel de Grote. If you look for the Gen Nostra control system in the Netherlands (we have a contoll system with 219 lines (reeksen)). To find in www.kareldegrote.nl it is the Netherlands Genealogie-Mittelalter.de version curator George Homs know that.
About Prof. Eduard Hlawitschka from München at the moment he is 88 Jahrs. We are sure that did all what is possible to become the paterns of Liudolf I and the same for the grandparents of Oda von Billing and the result was no information. The next answer need to become from the University in München there are his documents.Greatings Everard.

Dear Justin, You aks what I want to change. I see there the point in the used language for the persons names and titles. Example in Geni our Eberhard was born and died in France so his name is "Évrard de Ternois", his fuction was shortly "Duc di Friulia" in Italy. Also show "Évrard de Ternois, duc di Friulia". His wive is born and died in France (the last years in Cysiong), also "Giséle de Cysoing" will be correct. Charlemage died in the area of Aachen "Karl der Große" will be correct. One of his sons is "Louis I 'le Pieux', roi de Francs" is more complex, he is born in France and died in Germany, functions first in France later the total area only not Italy.
It is a point of system. Gr Everard.

Geni has language tabs for names. The name you see depends on the language you use in Geni. Many profiles only have a default name.

Tagging curators Private User and Sharon Doubell to take a look and let us know what they think.

Geachte Herr Junstin, Two persons where I have same problems:
1. Evrard von Thurgau in the system son of Adelbert II, count in Thurgau.
2. Eberhard I von Thurgau - Zurichgau in the system son of Abelbert III von Thurgau.
IIn the past from one of the two all the childern I have replaced in relation with Eberhard von Sülichen 856-889 and his son Eberhard II von Zürichgau 890-958 it was not possible to replace the parents.
Please your attention in both case.
Correction: Évrard de Ternois, duca del Friulia.
In Deutsch wünsche Ich Ihnen alles Gute, Everard.

Justin,
Line #5, Jutta Johansdr van Culemborg, Aleyt van Rosendael, Christina van Brederode, Herman II zur Lippe, Rudolp II, roi de Bourgogne, Louis II 'de Jeune', Louis I 'le Pieux".
Everard.

Dear Justin, Victor and Sharon,
About the names first we search on Google and later on the Geni Grafic Screen a name in the label, that needs a good look (show) and need to tell the most important information. Many times there is a default in the MP profiles with a person stranger name.
In the case of Eberhard (a German name) while he is a Frenchman with a pre and second name plus a important function.
Show is my opinion important. Greatings Everard.

Hallo Justin,
About Adalbert II and Adalbert III, father and son. I found the notes in the www.Genealogie-Mittelalter,de.
Adalbert II had 3 sons Adalbert III, Burchard I and Manegod plus one daughter Dietberg (Theotberga) the last one maried with Hucbald graf von Dillingen +909.
For Adalbert III the is a note of no childern. With other words no Evrard or Eberhard in bothe cases. I have placed a note for the 'beheerders / controlers'. I have now only changed the birthdate of Adalbert III.
All the best Everard.

Hi Justin and Everard - I'm battling to figure out which bit you want my opinion on.

If I am reading correctly Everard thinks we have some problems. Just help us check the names and relationships to see if we have any differences from the information Everard is giving.

You are curator, for example, for Unruoch, marquis & duke of Friuli and Giséle of Cysoing but without links I'm having a problem understanding the discussion.

On Everard van Dijk's point about Adalbert II, count in the Thurgau Yesterday at 11:31 PM
=Hallo Justin,
About Adalbert II and Adalbert III, father and son. I found the notes in the www.Genealogie-Mittelalter,de.
Adalbert II had 3 sons Adalbert III, Burchard I and Manegod plus one daughter Dietberg (Theotberga) the last one maried with Hucbald graf von Dillingen +909.
All the best Everard.=

The closest to a primary source that I can find is Medieval Lands: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SWABIAN%20NOBILITY.htm#BurkhardIdie... which lists only 3 children as follows:

Graf Adalbert [II] & his wife had three children:

a) BURKHARD [I] (-killed in battle [5 Nov] 911). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Marchio in Rätien 891/911. Graf in der Baar 893. He succeeded in 909 as BURKHARD I Duke of Swabia.

b) ADALBERT [III] (-killed in battle 911). The Annales Alamannicorum record that "Adalbertus frater eius [=Purghart comes et princeps Alamannorum]" was killed in 911 at "ecclesie Salamonis"[631]. Graf im Thurgau 894/910. Graf im Klettgau 901/902.

c) MANEGOLD . Pope John VIII names "Manegoldum filium Adelberti" in a letter addressed to "Carolo regis" dated 879[632].

The www.Genealogie-Mittelalter,de. is a general link - too much to put into google translate, so I need to be pointed to the specific primary sources that the author is using to identify the daughter, please Everard van Dijk

Everard van Dijk: Are you saying that "Giséle de Cysoing" is the closest we can get an original name for Giséle of Cysoing. Yes, that sounds correct to me. I will change the original name to that.

Dear Sharon,
At the same time this mail is coming in I send you a mail. In the important www.genealogie-mittelalter.de I have not fond a answer but a unkwon women as wive of Adalbert Ii im Thurgau .Greetings Everard.
In case of Heilwich a other daugter of Evrard de Ternois and Gsele de Cysoing and than next to here son Huchbald I von Dillingen, I have send George Homs a mail.

Proviso: I do think that it's not just a case of imposing present day languages spoken in the modern areas of France and Germany back onto the names of their ruling class in the 700s, with any certainty.

I can't find the Unruoch, marquis & duke of Friuli reference in the text in this Discussion. Please start a Discussion from his profile with the specific problem. It will be easier for us to take a look at it there.

Everard van Dijk I see you've added Dietbirg (Theotberga) von Thurgau as Adalbert II, count in the Thurgau's daughter. Can you find the primary sources to add to the profile, that prove this relationship? Thanks.

Dear Sharon, I am happy with the Geni system incl. the control with curators.
Quality and control is important. If I see father and son born ± in the same year I will change one of the two dates, near it looks normal.
Quality you have seen same notes from me about the language. I think you know the system in Europa, many countries with each a different fine culture. I like it.
The German language is my second one and English is my third one, in both I make mistakes.
If I look to the Genealogy system first we have the "Stammtafeln in Germany" equal we have in the Netherlands the "Gen Nostra 219 reeksen". Third we have the www.genealogie-mittelalter.de files. We need allways the last edition.
Wikipedia is good for a first impression. Equal we have in the Netherlands "Genealogie Online" as well for a first impression.
Google Translation we need always a control and change same original words.
All the best Everard.

Everard van Dijk, you are doing very well in your third language. Thank you - it must take a lot of work to translate for me. I can use google translate, if you get tired though :-)

Also thankyou for the quality control, and for recording what you have done in Discussions and Messages.
We LOVE users like you who respect research and scholarship, on Geni's medieval tree.

I can't easily search www.genealogie-mittelalter.de because of the language. Does it give primary sources?

Dear Sharon,

Primary sources yes there is a list of literatur and inside the text many times the sheet nummer of the used book. The best bilt-up you find if Prof. Eduard Hlawitschka is explane something only not in this part, but difficult for translation. His text looks mathematic important as system.

There is a file on Google with the title (Adalbert "dem Erlauchte" - Mittelalter)
This file is part of: www.manfred-hiebl.de system.
Inside the text is long after the text you will see the family mariage incl. the childern:
The file is to complex for translation by Google Translate.

OO NN
Childern
1. Buchard 855/60-911
2. Adalbert III +911 hingerichtet
3. Dietbirg (Theotberga) OO Hucbald graf von Dillingen -909.
4. Manegold.
Many times I have seen in the past that the childern are not complete.

Important no name of his wive but NN.
Important as well it is from the www.genealogie-mittelalter.de
Literatur: not clear while the text is very long.
I hope that this answer is what you need.
To morrow evening I can answer if you have still questions.
For the Hucbald family he is part of the von Dillingen family.
Greeting Everard.

Everard, it is important to give the original link.

For example, http://www.manfred-hiebl.de/genealogie-mittelalter/burchardiner_hun...
or http://www.manfred-hiebl.de/genealogie-mittelalter/burchardiner_hun...

That's the only way we can see what you see.

Dietbirg (Theotberga) is controversial.

Charles Cawley at Medlands calls her Dietpirch (another form of Dietbirg). He says:

DIETPIRCH (-17 or 22 Mar after 923, bur Wittislingen). Dietpirch is named as wife of Hupald in the Vita S. Oudalrici[72]. Herimannus names "Dietpirch" as daughter of "Burchardus dux" and wife of "Hartmannus comes"[73]. The Vita b. Hucbaldi names "Theobergam, filiam Burcardi ducis Sueviæ de genere Veringarum" as wife of "Hucbaldus", specifying that she brought Dillingen to her husband[74]. The necrology of Neresheim records the death "XVI Kal Apr" of "Dietpirga com mater s Udalrici"[75]. The necrology of Ottenburen records the death "XI Kal Apr" of "Dietpirc mater s Uodalrici ep"[76]. m HUPOLD, son of HARTMANN & his wife --- (-16 Jul [909], bur Wittislingen). "Hupaldus" is shown as son of "Hartmannus comes" and husband of "Dietpirch".

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SWABIA.htm#DietpirchMHupold

So, daughter of Burkhard II not Adalbert II.

Manfred Heibl thinks the wife of Hucbald was Dietbirg, daughter of Adalbert.

http://www.manfred-hiebl.de/genealogie-mittelalter/hupaldinger_graf...

The sources cited by Cawley seem to be very clear. The correct father must be Burkhard unless there is a dating problem to disprove it.

More from the "Vita beatus Hucbaldi" here. See the footnote at the bottom of page 20:

Annales Babenbergenses, Ensdorfenses, Augustani Minores (1852).
https://books.google.com/books?id=jzNhAAAAcAAJ&amp;pg=PA20&amp;lpg=...

Hallo Sharon,
Gisèle de Cysoing is correct. She is the daughter of Louís I 'le Pieux' and Judith (Welf) von Bayern. If you need a title that will be: Duchessa di Friuli.
Gr Everard.

Dear Justin,
Thanks for the control and addition info. If have seen it in the www.genealogie-mittelalter.de/Adalbert II ---- on a other way. I know that George Homs had used as well Burchard and not Adalbert II. I have send in Dutch a mail to George he is the curator of Hucbald d'Ostrevant.
If you find a better source then is that fine.
Inside one library in the Netherlands we have the complete last version of the Deutsche "Stammtafeln" we call that the basic source, I aspect that it is in the USA at more places the case.
Gr Everard.

George J. Homs

Dear Justin,
About Dietbirg, Adalbert II and Burchard
Two days a had not enough time to look the details you have given.
I have made screen copy of the by you and me called file parts and set that in Word
From George Homs a have an e-mail address. I will send him my Word file.

You have ask with file I have used: www.manfred-hiebl.de/mittelalter-genealogie/burchardiner/adalbert_2...

Other point Évrard de Ternois and Gisèle de Cysoing. They have 10 or more childern from some it is clear. Special for the daughters Judith, Gisela and Ingeltrude it is not so clear in relation to mariage and the next generation.

Gr Everard.