Query on "The Imperial Council of the Ancient Arabic Order"

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺,

Here is your answer:

http://www.shrinersinternational.org/Shriners/MasonShriners/Masons

Should they be created as a sub-project of the Freemasons? or a project all on their own?

Both.

But let's call them Shriners.

Very interesting, how did you manage to find that?

Private User,

I went to the website of Shriners International and was able to locate it.

I found a pot of geanilogical gold whilst emptying my in-laws apartment. We have been doing their family tree for 20 years - with their full support and interest.

On the weekend we found a trunk full of paperwork going back generations - certificates, family trees, photos, very very old negatives - will take me months to go through it all .
Also found medals, ceremonial clothing.

I honestly don't think they even remembered they had it.

Even found the patches they wore in the camp during WW2.

Now to work out how to preserve it all.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺
There are already projects For the Shrine and most of the affiliated masonic bodies. If you have a Shriner, you have a Freemason.

If i understand it, all shiners were freemasons but not all shiners were freemasons. Is that correct?

Hi again,

If someone with far more knowledge of the Masons than me could help me - I would much appreciate it.

I have found original certificates for Cyril Minny (CEM) for the below and I am not sure what some of them mean. If anyone can add any information it would be appreciated. I am in the process of having them all scanned (as they are too large to fit in my scanner)

26 October 1921 "Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons of Scotland" CEm entered as Apprentice, passed Fellow-craft and raised to degree of Master Mason in "Cosmopolitan No 428"

9 Feb 1923 "The Supreme Council of the 33 Degree for the Soutehrn Jurisdiction of the United States. CEM is a Master of the Royal Secret of the 32 Degree, Shanhgai China

5 Feb 1924 - "Grand Lodge of Scotland" CEM Master Mason of "Cosmopolitan, Shanghai, China No 428" admintted as a Mark Master

15 Mar 1929 - "Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States of America" - "Cathay Council of Kadosh No 2" in the valley of "Shanghai", orient of "China". CEM 32 degree symbol

15 Mar 1929 - "Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States of America" - "Corient Consistory No 1" in the valley of "Shanghai", orient of "China". CEM 32 degree symbol

15 Mar 1929 - "Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States of America" - "Yangtze Lodge of Perfection No 3" in the valley of "Shanghai", orient of "China". CEM 32 degree symbol

15 Mar 1929 - "Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States of America" - "Shanghai Chapter Rose Croix no 3" in the valley of "Shanghai", orient of "China". CEM 32 degree symbol

27 Nov 1937 - "United Grand Lodge of Antient, Free and Accepted Masons of England" received into "Free Masonry" under the "Grand Lodge of Scotland" and on 21/10/1937 joined the "Union Lodge No 1957", "District Grand Lodge of Northern China" at Shanghai

5 Jan 1938 "The Supreme Grand and Royal Chapter of Royal Arch Masons of England" - CEM was admitted as Royal Arch Mason on 8/1/1937 in "Northern Brown Chapter No 2931"

7 Nov 1938 - "Grand Lodge of Mark MAster Masons of England and Wales and the Dominions and Dependeccies of the British Crown" CEM admitted to the Degree of Royal Ark Mariner in the "Ararat Lodge No 264)

18 Jan 1941 "Grand Lodge of Mark Master Masons of England and Wales and the Dominions and Dependencies of the British Crown" - CEM orignally advanced in the "Cosmopolitan Lodge No 428 Scottish Constiution" was admitted as a joining Mark Master on 25/1/1940 in "Tientsin Lodge No 704, Tienstsin, China"

4 Feb 1943 - "St Andrew Royal Arch Chapter No 21"8 in Hongkong. CEM exacted to Royal Arch Degree of Free Masonry" - Grand Chapter of "England" 18/11/1938

Are these all Freemasons

Yes, those are all Freemasons. We already had projects for men who were members of Lodges in the U.S., England, and Scotland, and I believe you (or Kevin) created one for China. So if this is all for the same ancestor, you would add him to each of those four projects.

When someone is raised a degree, you can think of it as similar to advancing a rank in the military world.

When someone moves to a new Lodge, it usually indicates a migration on their part, so your ancestor clearly moved frequently. My maternal grandfather, for example, was a member of various Lodges in Florida and The Bahamas due to moving a lot. On my father's side of the family, however, my family have been members of the same local Lodge for 200+ years due to not moving from there. Most Masons tend to have one home Lodge for most, if not all, of their lives.

Eldon Lester Clark is Geni's resident expert on fraternal orders. You can always ask him any questions you have.

I should also point out that "Orient" in Masonry does not mean "East Asia," which could easily get confusing here due to the China connection. It's another, less common term for a Grand Lodge. A Grand Lodge is the top of the hierarchy in a given jurisdiction, while Lodges are the local grouos you actually join and participate in.

For example, the men in my family join Mt Lebanon #46, their local Lodge in Vermont. Mt Lebanon is in turn part of the Grand Lodge of Vermont, the umbrella organization of all Lodges in the state.

Shriners are governed independently of Grand Lodges and don't have them themselves.

>>>> "If i understand it, all shiners were freemasons but not all shiners were freemasons. Is that correct?"

Mostly correct. There are a few U.S. states where you don't have to be a Mason...not sure about elsewhere. But you can safely assume when you meet a Shriner that you're also meeting a Mason. :)

The rule used to be that you had to be a Scottish/Rose Croix or York Rite Master Mason, but they opened it up to other rites in recent years. Still need to be a Master Mason (except in those outlier states), though.

Private User Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺

As a 50+ year Mason, I have never heard of any Shrine where you did not need to be a Mason as the membership in a local lodge is always a prerequisite for membership in any of the other groups except the youth groups. At one time in California, you had to be a member of a lodge for a year before you could join the other groups except the OES. The situation is complicated because there are also sub groups for the Shrine and others where you can progress "up the line". A 32nd degree in the Shrine is honorary..

Thanks Ashley, my knowledge on Freemason's is completely non existent. I now have a pile of certificates, ceremonial outfits to go with the family sword.

Thanks Eldon.

Eldon Lester Clark, it looks like Arkansas is the last state where you don't need to be a Mason in order to be a Shriner. The last I had checked, there were still a few others. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but I wonder if it started due to the old Rite requirements.

Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺,

What I got from it is that you need to be a Master Mason to be a Shriner. So what the Shriners use on their website is that all Shriners are Masons, but not all Masons are Shriners.