Call for help or advice: South African in WWII / WW2 / World War 2 / World War II

Started by Leoné Gardner on Thursday, October 6, 2016
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Hi there.

I am currently doing some work on WWII, due to my grandfather's participation. Andries Johannes de Bruyn de Jager

Question: Why the shortage of projects for this? Or am I just not finding them?
Been through lists and lists of Geni projects covering WWII (internationally), but not much relating to what I'm busy with. Especially in comparison to WWI, where there's a separate project for SA soldiers, and intl ones for casualties, memorials, etc.
Also went through this project list of SA-related projects, and again only the WWII East African Campaign. :(

Who should I speak to about getting a project or two started?

Topics I'm working on / Suggested projects:
(some of these just SA, others international)
SA soldiers during WWII
North African Campaign
- Battle of Bengazi - in particular the Fall of Tobruk where approx 35,000 Allied soldiers were captured, including the SA 2nd Div.
SA POW's during WWII (including those captured in above mentioned conflict)
SA POW's held in Libya, Italy, Poland, Germany (etc?)
WWII SA medals, or even just WWII medal recipients
SA escaped POW's participating in resistance movements (e.g. Italy).
POW camps during WWII
Battles of WWII
WWII casualties
SA armed forces (or navy or air force) - WWII, or even just all of it lumped together.

Side Note:
My mother collected her father's war stories, did lots of research, and recently published the book (Afrikaans for now, English edition later this year). So I'm trying to link up the book's info to Geni, and track the soldiers mentioned by name in the book.
Most of the returning soldiers preferred not to speak of their experiences (some never do), including my grandfather, so it took just about 20 years to put this story together.

Surely there must be more info (even oral history) available to us and consequently more interest in comparison to WWI and the Anglo Boer War? Fathers and grandfathers (instead of GGG-grandfathers) who participated, with medals, memoirs, notes, diaries, service records, military pensions, and maybe even some still living. And better record keeping by the authorities both in SA and overseas.
While looking for additional info based on my grandfather's story, I've come across lists and lists of SA POW's with rank, name, service number, and POW camp number. Some of these lists may not be completely accurate (as I've been warned), but it's a start. Some of these have been drawn from the UK Archives at Kew, which we don't have easy access to. Also Red Cross reports, photo's, etc. Even some service records for SA soldiers completely unrelated to myself and not to be found on Geni (see example below).

Just seems like such a shame that there is just one SA project for this, unless I'm completely mistaken (which is completely possible).

I don't know how to go about starting another proper project, and would really appreciate some help or just advice to get going. PLEASE! Then at least I can "dump" the records that I do find into the project and maybe in the process help someone else find info on a father or a grandfather.

For example: (service record from SA military archives)
Capt. Johannes Casparus Lemmer, service number #196819. Served in Egypt & Libya 10/6/1941-20/6/1942. POW Italy 29/6/1942-11/9/1942, POW Germany -28/3/1934. Arrived UK 7/4/1945. RTU (returned to unit?) 6/5/1945. Medals: 1939-45 Star, AFrica Star, War Medal 1939-45, Africa Service Medal, Military Cross.

I'm not that clued up with military stuff, and can't decipher some of the abbreviations and jargon, but I'm learning. Would be great though to have a helping hand from someone who knows more about military stuff. I am not a Pro user at the moment, so my navigation on Geni gets stumped in places. Getting a Pro user to collaborate on any of this would be fantastic!

Anyway. Hope to hear from at least one person who is interested in this topic.

Kind regards,
Leone

Correction: NORTH African Campaign, not EAST African campaign. Oops, sorry.

PS. Sorry about the long ranting post. :) Got a bit worked up. Ha ha.

Leoné I am willing to help.. Your ideas are great... I suggest creating a plan or a structure then a SA WWII Portal / master project under which we can then add sub projects on more focused areas of the war..

Thanks Donovan. That will be great.
J

Leonè ek sit ook met oupa, grootooms, Egipte en dan heelwat in die WWII Italie van skoonsus.
Juds

Go Leone. Don is a great project maker - he'll teach you a lot. On the International WWII projects, start the Discussions from https://www.geni.com/projects/World-War-II-North-African-Campaign/8552.

Hi, Donovan.

Thank you so much for your quick and kind reply.

Yes, it makes sense to start off with an master project for SA WWII, and/or using it for a portal to the sub-divisions.
* Some of the latter may not be SA-specific, so maybe link them up to the WWII master project/portal?
* On the home page of the WWII North African Campaign Project there's a section listing SA soldiers involved, so they can be linked back to the Main SA WWII project (and later sub-projects).

To me it seems sensible to start off with something like "WWII SA Soldiers / Participants". That covers all branches of the defense force, both casualties & survivors, all campaigns/battles, officers/notables, medal recipients, and POWs.
* Those with specialised interests in our military branches could then go forth and sub-divide into Army, Navy, Air Force.
* But I think an immediate (strong word?) sub-project for Casualties would be a nice show of respect.
* A sub-project for Officers / Notables can probably wait a bit, as can something for medal recipients. The more prestigious awards of the latter seem to be mainly British anyway, and as far as I recall there's already a project or two for those (e.g. DSO). BTW: In my browsing through projects I haven't noticed a SA project for SA awards though...
* I would personally be very happy with a quick start on a WWII POW sub-project (which could be either SA-focused or broader), since I'm sitting on a lot of info/documentation that could mean be very meaningful to other users. Specifically quite a few pages from a Kew Archive file with full listings of all SA POW's in 8/1943.

How does that sound for a start?

That sounds great Leoné, except you don't want to start adding profiles to the Portal... It can get quite big and unwieldy very quickly... Rather add profiles to the sub projects...

Thanks to all!

Judi, sal rerig nice wees om jou familie-lede en skoonfamilie by te sit.

Sharon: Thanks for the encouragement and advice! It will be a huge project potentially drawing in many profiles, so I was hesitant to start on my own without guidance. Better to do it right from the start. Will go have a look at that link you posted.

Donovan: Okay, makes complete sense to not clutter the "umbrella" Project Portal.

As much guidance as possible please - I don't want to make a mess of things!

So chronologically,
* start with a SA WWII Portal, listing the sub-projects? Also clearly advising collaborators not to add profiles directly?
* Start a sub-project to throw in all the SA WWII participants.
* (Please) Start a sub-project for the SA WWII POWs.
Rest can follow from there?

Dankie, Ek het ook al gewonder oor die een WWII project
Ek weet ook hier en daar van iemand wat daar geveg het. Dink dit was in Egipte.
Het n foto van n oom wat as Spitfire pilot afgeskiet was en sy arm verloor het.

Exactly! Shout for help.

Basic stuff on 'How to add Text to a Project' : https://www.geni.com/discussions/104799.
C.Barry is a good collaborator to help you. As Don says, yell for help if it isn't doing what you want.

Great! Thanks, everyone!

Okay, I'm going to try and get this thing going (might take a while, as I'll have to learn as I go). Please join the project, and you clever curators please keep an eye on what I'm doing to let me know if/when I make a mistake.

Thanks for that link, Sharon. I don't know much about creating projects and making it look decent, so any tips are welcome.

Suppose it doesn't help to procrastinate because om scared of making a mistake, hey. :) Not going to be messing with trees, so errors can easily be rectified.

Okay. SA WWII Portal created, SA WWII Participants created and linked to portal, SA WWII Casualties created and linked to portal, WWII North African Campaign linked to portal. Grabbed the SA profiles from the North African Campaign and added them to the Participants projects and where applicable to the Casualties project.

Invited the lot of you to collaborate. :) Even if you don't do anything but keep an eye out for major issues. I've never done a project before, so have no idea about the potential pitfalls.

Still have to create the SA WWII POWs Project and link it to the Portal.

Questions:
What photos to add as main project photo for each of the 4 projects?
Please check my very short project descriptions. I think they are woefully inadequate, but for the life of me couldn't think of anything else to say.

I mentioned some photographs my father had from his North African campaign and was contacted by an Italian, Marco Ruzzi who asked if he could use some of them in a book he was writing on the Italian Campaign in North Africa...the book was called "La Guerra in Africa Settentrionale 1940-1943"....what was amazing was seeing a tiny photograph of the huge barrage of South African 25 pounders during El Alamein spread over a double page spread in the centre of the book....I hadn't realised until I saw the blown up photograph how the picture actually caught a long line of guns.....it looked so different in the book where it was the centre-page spread.....The author kindly sent 2 copies of the book to me so that I could forward one on to my brother in Australia....Sharing information can only benefit all parties.

Private User that is so fantastic.

Ek het ook vreeslik baie foto's van ouma en oupa Marnewick ge-erf van die Egite gevalle. Die pragtigste is die Kersfees en nuwejaarsfees wat vir die betrokkenes gehou is. Asook 'n poskaar foto wat ouma vir oupa gestuur het met die drie kinders, mamma en haar 2 boeties. 'n Foto waar hulle vertrek en ook 'n foto van Oupa by die graf van sy jonger broer.
Dan Italië het ek vir skoonsus Hettie haar ma se 1st man wat in Italië oorlede is en begrawe is, soveel dokumente et al in die Pretoria argief gekry. Sal net tussen al my 1000de foto's moet soek.

Juds

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