Carl Friedrich Knobloch/Knoblauch 1765-?

Hi Bjorn, thanks for joining the project!

Private User Rod Hinkel, any ideas how we might connect Bjorn's 2xGGF Carl Friedrich Knoblauch to the Jewish Knobloch family of Frankfurt, via his origin in Sachsen?

I wonder if CFK is my genetic connection to a few people with primarily Finnish ancestry, but no known Jewish ancestor. :-)

Saxony is a big place and he might have been from Lower Saxony. If his birthplace is unknown then the military archives might have some records on him to show where he was born. You need to know which regiment he was with.
Regards
Rod

The profile tells that he is born in "Zwickau, Chemnitz, Saxony, Germany", but I have absolutely no idea what the source for that is.

Bjorn, can you tell us why you think your aunt's Knobloch ancestor might have been of Jewish descent?

Have any of his descendants had their DNA tested? I and two of my Knobloch cousins have been tested on FTDNA and our kits are also published on gedmatch.com. It would be helpful to learn if any of Carl Friedrich's descendants have a DNA match with me and my cousins.

I have no idea.

Bjorn I'm a bit confused. When I noticed that you were following me on Geni I thought it might be that you are related to one of the Finnish people that I have a DNA match with. Then I noticed that you have a Knobloch in your family tree and thought perhaps that was why you are following me.

If you believe that our families are somehow connected it would be helpful if you would tell us what led you to that conclusion.

It was me who got invited to join this project and I suspected it was because I have this Knobloch/Knoblauch line, so I started digging into it to find a connection. Secondly I am not following you. I usually just put a follow on strangers if they make bad merges etc.

I suspect a jewish connection because his wife was first married to a Johan Jacob Musmann which is a jewish name as well - and worked as Kuchenbager (Baker).

Carl Friedrich Knoblauch's untraditional profession: musician, make me suspect that he probably was from a family of musicians. when he moved to Norway he played organ. Later on he was also registered as a customs officer.

Yes, that is correct, I did invite you to this project.

I have no experience researching Finnish records so don't know what kind of information is contained in BMD records. Perhaps you might be able to find out if there were any Jewish synagogues in Finland at that time, and if they are still in existence they might have records for the Knobloch family or the Musman family.

You can write to the church in Werdau near Zwickau and ask them to search for his baptismal entry. (please see below). Somebody else has been looking for him since 2007.

As he was a customs official but also church organist and Knoblauch is a very normal German surname, I don't see the connection. His wife was Anne Judithe Holst, previously married Muusmann.

Pfarramt, Burgstr. 32,
08412 Werdau
Fax: (03761) 82723
Tel. (03761) 2270
E-Mail: kg.werdau@evlks.de

http://aforum.genealogi.se/discus/messages/576/123568.html?1375210094

Skriver lite ur huvudet (har ingen "digital ordning" på min släkt :-) :

Adolf var en äldre bror till min Mf ff Ludvig Mathias Knobloch f.1836. Andra syskon var åtminstone Carolina f.1838 och Anton f.1840 har jag för mig..

Kengis ligger i Pajala, och det är möjligt att familjen bodde där någon tid också, men annars är det Muoniovaara lite längre norrut (också hörande till Pajala) som var deras födelseplats, det ligger mittemot den finska kyrkbyn Muonio.

Där vid Muoniovaara byggde deras far Fredrik Wilhelm Knobloch (f.1806 12/1 i Kristiansund i Norge, död 1874 17/7) en gård som kom att kallas "Sveriges nordligaste herrgård", den stod kvar som förfallen för 25-30 år sedan, vet inte om någon såg till att den inte fick förfalla helt. Fredrik Wilhelm var handelsman och även vaccinatör, jag har omnämnt honom på lite annat håll här i forumet också..

Fredrik Wilhelm var en av flera syskon som först kom upp till Hammerfest i nordnorge, och sedan kom han ned till tornedalen i början av 1830-talet har jag för mig, gift 1833. Hans far i sin tur (Carl Friderich Knobloch, f.1765) var tullare och organist i Kristiansund; kom dit ca 1799 från Köpenhamn där han var militärmusiker i garnisionsförsamlingen där under 1790-talet. Hans hustru hette Anne Judithe Holst, tidigare gift Muusmann.

Carl Friderich (Carl Fredrik) skall vara född 1765 i något som heter Werdau, i närheten av Zwickau, i Sachsen - inte särskilt långt från ena hörnet av Tjeckien. (Om honom och annat finns mycket på nätet, dock har jag aldrig sett något vidare bakåt längre än det här angivna.)

Modern till Adolf (m.fl.) bör kort nämnas; hon hette Mathilda Adolfina Kohlström (1798-1874), dotter till den lätt excentriske prästen Matthias Kohlström (f.1763 i Torneå, d.1829) och hans hu Beata Kajsa Wahlbom (f.1764 i Arboga, d.1844).

Jag lånade snabbt lite årtal från uppgifter på nätet här på slutet; har mina papper lite undanstoppade numera.

Om just Kohlström vet jag det finns mycket att läsa (och alla exakta uppgifter) på Genos

Det finns mycket spännande om namnet och släkten, en utredning med mycket stoff och kringuppgifter från 70-talet finns gjord vet jag. (Osäker på om min kopia bleknat bort eller inte :-)

PS Skall höra om anbytarvärden kan ändra rubriken här till "Knobloch/Knoblock" som är de normala stavningarna av namnet (Knoblock mer i modern tid). -Även Knoblauch skulle kanske kunna tas med, det är i grund och botten samma namn, och visar ju allra tydligast vad namnet betyder; dvs Vitlök :-)

En mängd adliga och borgerliga vapensköldar för namnet Knobloch/Knoblauch nerifrån Tyskland har som huvudmotiv tre vitlökar i olika konstellationer.. Det finns som sagt många släkter med namnet, men "vår" (dvs den till norra Sverige och Finland, från Norge inflyttade) släkt går förmodligen alltså till just Sachsen, nära Tjeckien. Jag har sett 1600-tals (och äldre) förekomster av namnet i Chemnitz, som också är en närbelägen ort till den plats varifrån den förste stamfadern skall ha kommit.

Namnet förekommer också på personer i Sverige som invandrat under 1900-talet från (tror jag) Tjeckoslovakien - och det är ju lite festligt, för även om de inte alls kommer från den gren som tog sig norrut i slutet av 1700-talet så kan de ju ha samma rötter nere i Sachsen med omnejd..

Nu får det räcka för idag

(Meddelandet ändrat av peterk den 13 december, 2007)

Translated:

Writes a little out of your head (do not have a "digital device" on my family :-):

Adolf was the older brother of my Mf ff Louis Mathias Knobloch f.1836. Other siblings were at least Carolina f.1838 and Anton f.1840 I have for me ..

Kengis located in Pajala, and it is possible that the family lived there for some time as well, but otherwise it Muonio Vaara little further north (also belonging to Pajala) which was their birthplace, it is opposite the Finnish main village Muonio.

There at Muonio Vaara built their father Friedrich Wilhelm Knobloch (f.1806 12/1 in Kristiansund in Norway, died 1874 17/7) a farm which was called "the northernmost mansion", it continued as overdue for 25-30 years ago , do not know if anyone saw that it did not decay completely. Frederick William was a merchant and also vaccinatör, I have mentioned him in some other places here in the forum also ..

Fredrik Wilhelm was one of several siblings who first came up to Hammerfest in Northern Norway, and then he came down to the Torne Valley in the early 1830s, I have for me, married in 1833. His father in turn (Carl Fridrich Knobloch, f.1765 ) were customs officers and organist in Kristiansund; got there about 1799 from Copenhagen, where he was a military musician in garnisionsförsamlingen there during the 1790s. His wife was Anne Judithe Holst, previously married Muusmann.

Carl Fridrich (Charles Frederick) must be born in 1765 in something called Werdau, near Zwickau in Saxony - not very far from one corner of the Czech Republic. (If he and the other is a lot online, but I have never seen anything further backwards longer than stated here.)

The mother of Adolf (and others) should be briefly mentioned; she was named Mathilda Adolfina Köhlström (1798-1874), daughter of the slightly eccentric priest Matthias Köhlström (f.1763 in Tornio, d.1829) and his hu Beata Kajsa Wahlbom (f.1764 in Arboga, d.1844).

Rhea, - what has Carl Friedrich Knobloch/Knoblauch to do with Finnish records, except that one of his sons ended up there?
Sachsen is Germany.

Bjorn there is no call to be argumentative. I should think the answer to your question is obvious and I won't indulge you by replying. Thanks for your interest in this project and good luck to you in your research.

There is a notion in a book, where Finnish Knoblocks were suspected to be of jewish origin.Probably just a rumor.

Heikki Muoniovaara do you recall the name of the book? Perhaps it is only a rumor but it might be a clue.