Captain James Davis - Ancestry 404'ed

No hard evidence but do have a question.

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From https://www.carolinajournal.com/opinion-article/first-american-ship...

Born around 1580 in Gloucester, England, Davis was the son of Sir Thomas Davis, an original member of the Virginia Company of Plymouth. Already an experienced sailor by the age of 27, James Davis joined the Company’s 1607 expedition to New England to plant a colony. ...

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So is Sir Thomas Davis of Gloucester the same as Capt. Thomas Davis, of Jamestown?

According to the interpretation of the book pages scanned and posted here:

https://captainjamesdavisgenealogy.wordpress.com/2013/01/

Notes 1:
Capt. James DAVIS, Birth: Gloucester, England, Death: 1624 in Jamestown, Virginia –
Original settler of Jamestown.  Captain James Davis was born between 1575 and 1580 in England. He was the son of Sir Thomas Davis. Captain James Davis married Rachel Keyes circa 1607/8. Adventurers of Purse and Person, page 238, Rachell’s name came from Patent Bk. 1, p. 17; CP I, p. xxxiv.

Captain James Davis died on 16 February 1622/23 in James City, Henrico, Nansemond County, Virginia; death noted by Hotten: “James Davis, dead at his plantation over the water from James City, Februay 16, 1623.” Whether he was killed by the Indians or not is not shown.

[SIC: apparently the death date / location is controversial]

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In 1607, Capt. James Davis and Capt. Robert Davis, the sons of Englishman Sir Thomas Davis came to America.  James Davis was one of the original settlers of Jamestown, Virginia. He also was Captain of Fort Sagadahoc, the new, but short-lived English colony settled at the mouth of the Kennebec River in Maine where brother Robert was a Sergeant Major. James and Robert’s father, Sir Thomas, later followed them to America, coming over on “The Margaret” and settling in Jamestown in 1619.

Notes 3:
Children of James Davis and Rachel Keyes are:

1. John DAVIS b: 1610, Isle of Wight, Virginia
2. Nathaniel Davis
3. Thomas DAVIS b: Abt 1613 in Henrico, Nansemond, VA, Death: BEF 30 Sep 1683 in Nansemond, Virginia ~ Maj. Thomas Davis was born in 1612/13 in Jamestown (Chuckatuck), Nansemond County, Virginia. He was the son of Captain James Davis and Rachel Keyes. Maj. Thomas Davis married Mary Bowers circa 1639/40. Maj. Thomas Davis died before 20 September 1683 in Nansemond County, Virginia.

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So cleanup is needed of children, their wives, etc.

Easier than origins. :)

I have yet to find anything but a bare unsupported assertion that Capt. James Davis was the son of this Sir Thomas Davis. No birth record, no baptism record, no letter to, from, or about him, no legal documents, no nothing.

Well, I can definitely give the lie to the BS about Sir Daddy arriving in 1619.

The Margaret of Bristol approved to leave Sept 15, 1619 arrived in Jamestown with Master Capt. John Woodleefe and 36 settlers on Dec 4, 1619.
.....
Davis Thomas, cooper and shingler, died
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Notice: not a knight, and if he even got there he didn't last long. (The Margaret was a bad-luck ship - of her 36 settlers, a good half are listed as "died", "slain", "drowned".)
http://www.packrat-pro.com/ships/margaret1619.htm

As to the Hotten lists, they contain some errors and inconsistencies. In several cases people believed "killed" by the Indians in 1622 turned up alive, well, and prisoners of other tribes (particularly the Nansemonds, who seem to have been in it for the ransoms). Eventually everybody who wanted to come back (and possibly some who didn't) was returned.

Some book citations for the Virginia Company of Plymouth in this article

"Virginia Company of London." Dictionary of American History. 2003. Encyclopedia.com. 27 Apr. 2016 <http://www.encyclopedia.com&gt;.

Sir Thomas Dane, Knight [Davis]

Signatory to the The Second Virginia Charter (May 23, 1609)

document here

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1600-1650/the-second-virginia-c...

The vast majority of the signatories merely hazarded their monies, letting other people take the (appalling) physical risks. There also seems to be a range of interpretation as to precisely whose names, and in what spellings, are on the document.

Sir Thomas *Dale*, later Governor, owned shares in the Virginia Company and had been knighted in 1606 - which suggests yet another possible identity for the mysterious "Sir Thomas Dane".

There is only one Sir Thomas Davi(e)s in Shaw's Knights - and he was knighted in 1667. By Jacobean times *most*, though not all, of the men being knighted were duly listed. (Sir Thomas Dale is properly listed as being knighted in 1606.)

Make of this what you will.

What I make of it was that the sea faring adventurous brothers of Virginia came from the merchant class around the Sandys' and the chance they were of Welsh nobility seem distant indeed.

Wikitree has a real horror of a listing for "Sir Thomas 'Rice' Davis":

Sir Thomas "Rice" Davis aka Rice Davis
Born 1550 in Acton Turville, Gloucestershire, England
Son of James Thomas Davis [middle names, this early?] and Agnes Samon Chandler
Brother of Elijah Davis and John Davis
Husband of Rachel Davis — married 1573 in England [no last name]
Husband of Elizabeth (Lawrence) Davis — married August 5, 1576 in Bristol, Gloucestershire, England [Two wives in three years?}
Father of James Davis
Died 1601 in Elizabeth City, Virginia [SIC!!!] Virginia was not colonized until 1607, and Elizabeth City did not exist - at all - before 1634 and wasn't called "Elizabeth *City* (County) until after 1636.

This page suggests that the Gloucestershire Davises contributed their genes to New England, *not* Virginia: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cdavis2/

http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Dale_Sir_Thomas_d_1619 does not seem to be a candidate for the father of Capt James Davis & his possible brother Capt Robert Davis.

"Dale married Elizabeth Throckmorton before he departed for Virginia in the spring of 1611; they are not known to have had any children."

Nor do I see him associated with the Plymouth Company.

I was looking at the same things, maven. The Acton Turville location caught my eye.

Does Acton Turville in the Cotswolds strike as a location likely to produce excellent sea captains?

I was simply speculating about the signator to the 1609 charter - if no "Sir Thomas Dane" *and* no "Sir Thomas Davis", should the name perhaps read "Sir Thomas Dale"? (Just how bad *was* his handwriting?)

Acton Turville is not unreasonably far from Bristol - a journey of a day or two if walking, less by horseback. And once in Bristol, the sea beckons.

If we were talking about Acton Burnell, that would be quite another thing - that's far, far inland.

Frankly, I suspect "Sir Thomas Davis" is one of those myths constructed to link a mercantile (or yeoman) family to a glamorous past.

The signers of the 2nd Virginia charter of 1609 are described in brief here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=xR-eQ5a_7zMC&amp;lpg=PA37&amp;ots...

Included 21 peers, 96 knights, 11 doctors and ministers, 53 captains, 28 esquires, 58 gentlemen, 110 merchants, and 282 citizens and individuals not classified (Brown 1890, Vol l: 228)

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So a captain was not the bottom of the social scale.

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And no particular reason to associate the [Davis] signer with the Capt Davis "brothers," is there ?

No, no particular reason.

There's also an indisputable John Davies, status not specified, and a "Launcelot Davis, gentleman" also interpreted as "Clene"(?) (I bet he had horrible handwriting!)

Read about <a href="http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/Our_Country_Vol_1/london...; London and Plymouth Companies</a> in <a href="http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/Our_Country_Vol_1&quot;&... Country, Vol. I</a>

Sad reading ! (no names except Popham, Gorges and Gilbert)

Links are bad. :-(

Here we go - DEVON (I Iike)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popham_Colony

The next attempt was more successful. About 120 colonists left Plymouth on May 31, 1607 in two ships. They intended to trade precious metals, spices, furs, and show that the local forests could be used to build English ships. Colony leader George Popham sailed aboard the Gift of God with Raleigh Gilbert as second-in-command. The captain of the latter ship, was Robert Davies. Master of the ship was James Davies who kept a diary that is one of the main contemporary sources of the information about the Popham Colony. The diary is maintained in Lambeth Museum in London. James Davies was made captain of the ship built by the colonists, The Virginia, and made at least two voyages across the Atlantic. Robert and James were most likely from a family of mariners from Devon, England.

Got there by Googling "Our Country Vol I". Pretty sketchy.

Repost of the link above

http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/Our_Country_Vol_1/london...

(excerpt from Vol l of "Our Country" published late 1800s)

Captain James Davies of the Virginia : Popham colonist and Jamestown settler : ancestor of many of the Boggesses of Harrison County, West Virginia

James Davis, son of Thomas Davis, was born in about 1575-1580, probably in Devon, England. He married Rachel Keyes and they had three sons - Thomas, James and Nathaniel. He died in Virginia.
Includes Coffman, Cunningham, Marriott, Robinson, Swiger and related families.

https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE216638

Well, I'm convinced of:

- James Davies was the son of a Thomas Davies
- he was a sea captain & a rather talented one (success where others failed)
- he was literate & a good writer
- it seems likely he was both the Popham colonist & the Jamestown colonist
- it seems likely his younger brother Robert sailed with him as his ship master
- it seems unlikely they had anything to do with "sir" anything in their ancestry

:)

... And the ship he designed is on a stamp! You go James!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_(pinnace)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shipbuilding_1957_issue-3c.jpg

Popham Expedition papers - see the appendix

http://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44806845.pdf

James Davies (on the council)

Robert Davies, captain, "Gift of God"

Correction: Robert Davies was the captain of the Mary and John

... And he brought American wine back to England, where it got good reviews.

https://hogsheadwine.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/grapes-very-fair-and-...

“Grapes Very Fair and Excellent Good”: The First Known Vintage in the Colony of Virginia"

Captain Robert Davies arrived in London on December 01, 1607. Sir Ferdinando Gorges promptly wrote a letter to the Earl of Salisbury. In it he wrote, “This present day here is arrived one of our ships out of the parts of Virginia… grapes very fair and excellent good, whereof they have already made wine, much like to the claret wine that comes out of France…”[x] Of interest, but of no consequence, is the description “excellent good” which is similar to Robert Davies description “exceeding good.”

Sir Ferdinando Gorges is referring to the Popham Colony and not Jamestown..

Thomas Davi(e)s I can well believe, since the name recurs several times in the next generations. It's the "Sir" and alleged highborn connections that I don't believe. :-)

The sources so far have not asserted that Robert & James were brothers, just that they were clearly associated with each other and likely of the same "family of Devon mariners.".