Boling Kikpelathy "Long Hunter" Baker - Boling Baker question

There are many on here that are much better than I at explaining, documenting etc. these millions of profiles, and as you see, many do not have them.

One thing I do know in my limited knowledge of the Native traditions involving marriage, children etc. is that you aren't likely to find the hard written documented facts you are seeking for these people. They depended on oral tradition, stories handed down to them through the ages. That was in fact, a thing to be proud of, storytelling by the elders of "traditions and heritage". Granted, many are very likely exaggerated, but most were at least based on facts. I'm sure that very often the legend far exceeds the person.

Marriage in the sense that we know it wasn't the same, certificates of marriage and birth in native villages don't exist. Boling lived in their world, had Aracoma chosen to enter his world, the opposite would be true. He became a warrior, a renegade white man fighting for their cause.

All we have is what has been handed down through time, words spoken and remembered through the generations. Not trying to sound dramatic, just stating what little facts we "don't" have. Not sure I agree with the statement in Boling's profile about living with the Cherokee, Cornstalks family were Shawnee, and at that time, the two tribes weren't on good terms. Sequoyah didn't even begin the Cherokee syllabary until after 1800 so the written word really didn't exist much in the Native world unless Boling's white family would have documented it. And I would venture to say that they had disowned him.

Unless I am mistaken, the "Kikpelathy" Indian name given him by the Shawnee comes from Don Greene's Shawnee Heritage series of books (which are speculative at best) and the horse thief "thing" was likely orally passed down as it was a trait to be proud of in the Native world versus what the whites believed. He could likely walk into a white village and play it off to steal horses and bring back to the tribe. At the end of Boling and Aracoma's profiles, there are references to Shawnee Heritage books, they are a source of "written/oral" documents that in many cases are all we have. Wish I could give you better facts, but sometimes this is all we have....

One more thing, I grew up hearing the story of Boling and Aracoma, and have visited the show in West Logan WV many times, it still plays there during the summer months at Chief Logan State Park, which is about 2 miles from the home I grew up in. My Great grandparents told me I was related to her for as long as I can remember, and I have been to the gravesite many times. I know they are real people that lived and died for what they believed in. The story of Aracoma's grave being discovered during excavation for a building in Logan exactly where "oral tradition" said it was adds to the credibility of their stories. Sometimes we just have to have faith Bill....

Mr Baker i didn't appreciate u made changes of my family without my permission i would ask u remove ur info put mine back please and thank u

Capt. John Teneretta Baker is my fourth great grandfather. HE was Boling Baker's brother.

Are there documents that this man even existed?

Is there real documentation that this man was actually the brother of John "Renta" Baker?

Does anybody know where the name Kikpelathy came from and is there documentation about that.

Also, is there proof that this man actually was married to an Indian woman and had children with her in Logan, WV?

Lastly, Is there proof that this man is part of the Baker family of gunsmiths?

From A. Eric Dolan

I was intrigued when I first found the info about Boling Kikpelathy "Long Hunter" Baker in November of 2016. I do have documentation that I am related to John "Renta" Baker. Then I brought it up to a Baker genealogist, thinking she would be impressed. She told me that there was no proof that Boling Baker was John Baker's brother or that he was a part of the gunsmith Baker's.

There are military records and a documented relationship to George Baker. See

https://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.geni.com/p13/e8/c8/3b/1e/53444848da...

From Page 38 of http://crossedbrushstudio.com/windowsintoourpast/Volume-pdf/Volume7...

I wonder if there’s a Baker DNA project.

http://bakerdesign.com/bakerhistory/genealogy/family-tree/

Sadly the register report does not hold up at all.

I believe there have been two different Bolling Baker’s conflated.

1. Son of Rev Andrew Baker & his wife Mollie, who is “not claimed” as a daughter by any Bolling family. This Bolling married Patsy Morris; he was a soldier of the American Revolution, and died in Kentucky in 1812.

DAR record: http://services.dar.org/public/dar_research/search_adb/?action=full...

I think two different Boling Baker’s have been conflated

Wilma & All, The Bolling Baker (b. 1763/64, that married Patsy
Morris, was a brother of George Baker b. 1759 in Granville County, NC.
Patsy Morris is supposedly the sister of Susannah Morris who married
above George Baker.
Someone recently posted information from Bolling Baker's pension
records, apparently, he mentions that he married Patsy Morris in the
papers.
I don't have copies of Bolling Baker's pension records, but I do have
George's, and it mentions that Bolling Baker is his brother. Leslie
===

https://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=gwenbj&id...

——-

I’m reading this as George Bakers brother married Patsy Morris. Aracoma’s husband a different man, older, served under Gen Braddock before 1755.

2. This is Aracoma’s speech at her deathbed supposedly:

(text of Aracoma's speech)
My name is Aracoma, (meaning a corn blossom) and I am the last of a
mighty race. My father was a great chief and a friend of your people.
He was murdered in cold blood by the white when he came to them as a
friend to give them warning. I am the wife of a paleface who came across the great waters to make war on my people, but came to us and was made one of us. A great plague many moons ago carried off my children and they lie buried just above the bend in the river.
Bury me with them with my face toward the setting sun that I may see my people on their march to the happy hunting grounds. For your kindness I warn you to make haste in returning to your homes for my tribe is still powerful and will return to avenge my death."

——-

I believe her husband could have been a British soldier under Gen Braddock before 1755 in the French & Indian War, a much older man.

From http://www.appalachianaristocracy.com/getperson.php?personID=I9949&...

(With really bad dates that don’t fit the narrative)

“Bolin Baker was captured by the Shawnee in 1755 while serving as a scout in General Benjamin Braddock's army in Western PA during the French and Indian War. He is thought to have been a deserter from Braddock?s army that attempted to take Fort Duquesne in July 1755. Supposedly he made raft and was floating on the Ohio River and was captured where the the Kanawha and Ohio rivers meet. He was taken to Chief Cornstalk's village and held by them for a period of time. Oral tradition says that he had to run the gauntlet and his courage gained him the admiration of Chief Cornstalk's daughter Aracoma. She persuaded her father to make him a member of the Shawnee.

After the Revolutionary War, Bolin lived with the Cherokee Indians where he was as known as a renegade white man and renowned horse thief.

Logan County tradition says that Aracoma and Baker moved into the valley sometime close to the year 1760 and lived in peace on the island in today's city of Logan until 1780. ”

A. Eric Dolan What do you think ?

Also you might be interested in these DNA Comments:

http://bakerdesign.com/bakerhistory/2017/06/01/•-we-may-not-be-brit...

“However, I must say that a name change from Beckert to the English “Baker” just prior to or just after arriving in America could explain why we’ve have had a rough time finding Rev Andrew’s ancestors since way before DNA testing became available—and why we may have an even harder time finding Andrew Esquire’s parents and siblings. Maybe “Old Andrew” Esquire’s pappy or grandpappy was a Beckert or a Bager, rather than a “Baker”. Like an NPE, It only takes one generation (one father) to change a surname in history and throw a wrench in all of our careful research. ...”

Lloyd Alfred Doss, Jr. What do you think?

I suspect we’re showing that

1. The Aracoma story is real
2. But there’s no Ancestry or descent for him
3. So any relationships should be through her siblings

http://www.wycoreport.com/county_history/aracoma-boling-baker-stori...

Also in 1792, the white renegade Boling Baker, husband of the Shawnee Indian princess Aracoma, left his Indian village at “The Islands” (Logan) and made a trip into the settlements of the New River Valley, probably taking some Indian braves with him. Boling Baker supposedly told a pitiful story to the settlers about his escape from the Indians, and winning their confidence, he was able to steal some horses from the settlements.

The settlers, organized under the leadership of William Madison and John Breckenridge, made chase of Baker and his Indians. In their pursuit the Madison-Breckenridge expedition passed the towering, shaft-like rock formation now known as Castle Rock which stands in the middle of Pineville.

Proceeding on to the Shawnee Indian village at “The Islands” (Logan), Madison and Breckenridge orchestrated their attack on the Indians from two sides. Cecile Goodall, author of “The Making of Logan,” in The West Virginia Review, October 1933, stated that “the fight lasted three days and many of the Indians were killed. Twenty of them escaped and more were captured, among them, Aracoma, who was grievously wounded.”

Other accounts agree the battle lasted three hours, not three days. No white settlers were killed. This episode of conflict between the Indians and the settlers became known as the “Battle of the Islands.”

Tradition says that Aracoma, daughter of the great Shawnee Indian chief Cornstalk, made the following appeal as she lay dying:

“My name is Aracoma and I am the last of a mighty line. My father was a great chief and a friend of your people, and was murdered in cold blood by your people when he had come to them as friend to give them warning. I am the wife of a paleface who came across the great waters to make war on my people, but came to us and became one of us. A great plague many moons ago carried off my children, with a large number of my people, and they lay buried just over the bend of the river. Bury me with them with my face toward the setting sun, that I may see my people in their march toward the happy hunting ground. For your kindness, I warn you to make haste in returning to your homes for my people are still powerful and will return to avenge my death.”

What became of Boling Baker, Aracoma’s husband, who was absent from the village during the “Battle of the Islands,” was not determined. (Robert Y. Spence’s Land of Guyandot (1976) cites the Logan County tradition that the battle in which Aracoma was killed occurred in 1780. Wyoming County historian G.P. Goode, though relying heavily on G.T. Swain’s History of Logan County for detail, believed the event happened later, basing his opinion on Col. Robert Crockett’s Virginia Calendar Papers and the opinions of historians Bicknell and Johnston. Much of the Aracoma story has been based on legend and tradition.)

I believe that the story is true, and as much as I hate to say it, unproven ancestry is just that "unproven" so should not be documented as fact. She was married to a Boling Baker, but who he was and where he came from isn't proven and Don Greene's work doesn't hold any credibility. There is also no descent from Aracoma, so they can stay on the tree, they all "known" children died in 1776 of some plague.

Do what needs done to fix the tree to a level we can prove as factual. But the documentation that you can hold in your hand as far as what Euros expect aren't going to be there for Aracoma, birth certificates etc. so she needs left alone with a Boling Baker as her "husband" . There are sufficient stories and documents to prove her life and death.

It turned out that the Andrew Baker needed an overhaul.

Some points:

- DNA proves his line unrelated to other known Bakers
- his wife was Susannah Baker as proven by Probate Records in 1779. Mary / Mollie / Agnes Bolling is apocryphal. There was an Agnes 20 years older who married a Kenyon. And there’s a Justice Bowling son in law,
* as well as his son Bolling ‘Long Hunter’ Baker , who married Martha Baker and moved to Clay County, KY. Documented in Rev War pensions
* the famous Captain John ‘Renta’ Baker had a funky birth date. The one I updated to is more logical.
* disconnected all kinds of extra Bakers, I guess he was a Geni magnet.
* DNA studies show no native Ancestry
* Boling Baker was a deserter British soldier from Gen Braddocks army. I don’t think he was a long hunter. It is possible he had another wife after Aracoma died but I see no proof so far.

Here is the Baker DNA site. http://www.bakerdna.net/ My Baker line is through #4003 (in the gold batch) My grandmother, Mildred Baker is the sister to Henry Ed Baker and Henry Harris Baker is her father.

Henry "Ed" Baker 1890 IA-1946 Latah Co, ID/Mary Roebard
Henry Harris "Hank" Baker 1865 Scioto Co, OH-1939 Latah Co, ID/Ellen Barbara Little
Edward D. Baker 1837 Perry Co, KY-/Keziah Justus
Eligah Baker 1802 KY or VA-1862 Buchanan Co, VA/Sarah Polly
James Walter Baker 1782 NC-aft 1840 OH/Elizabeth Shepherd
Rev. Andrew Baker 1749-1815 Lee Co, VA/Elizabeth Avent