There is a possibility that Haimo de Masci is my original English ancestor, if I can prove to any extent that the Baguley name originated as a Massey who took possession of the place Baguley in the same manner that Matthew de Massey became Matthew de Bramall in the early 12th century. But he is also a very interesting person in his own right. In my original research I tried to place him in pedigree by looking at his parentage, ostensibly the natural son of Guillaume de la Ferté-Macé and Muriel de Conteville, with which I took exception. I was unable to support with any degree of personal confidence this particular pedigree.
In this current research I focused on his place of birth and date of birth, which unexpectedly informed the original question of parentage. This research shows a number of different possible pedigrees for Haimo, as well as, in my opinion, a much more comprehensive composite of date and place of birth. But it has opened up new questions, or new pursuits in research:
• It is “quite possible” that Haimo was not the first baron of Dunham-Massey
• It is also “likely” that the string of six Hamon’s as barons of Dunham-Massey simply did not happen. Even Sir Peter Leycester, who was the first author of this statement, a few years later acknowledged he was having second thoughts regarding this likelihood.
• Haimo had two sons, Robert and Simon, who were old enough to have been witness to various documents up to 1107. Rootsweb at Ancestry.com has Robert born in 1067 (to Haimo born in 1040). If Robert was born in 1067 then Margaret de Sacie (de Sees) was not his mother, indicating that Haimo probably had a previous wife.
• Rootsweb has a name for her, … de Sutterby.
• Rootsweb also shows an alternate pedigree where Miss Sutterby is wife of Robert and mother of Hamon II. “She was said to be heiress of land in Sutterby and Brassington, as Hamon gave this land held by his mother to Hugh de Dutton.”
• Guillaume de la Ferté-Macé had a father also named Guillaume who died a monk 18 December 1052, so says Peter Stewart here https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/wg.... Coupled with this statement from Michael Stanhope would necessitate a change in the Geni tree; “It can hardly not be the case that the Masseys connected to Hugh Lupus were from Avranches. The problem is that there were likely more than one family of "Masseys"; with the family of Ferté-Macé being cited as another possible example. The claim for this family being of the Bellêmes is spurious; holding a fief under the Bellêmes being no guarantee of being one of them.”
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/crispincousins/conversations/to...;
• There is a strong likelihood that there was also more than one family of de la Ferté-Macé. It seems one descended from Guillaume at Ferté-Macé while another from either Mathieu or William in the Passais-Normand southwest of Domfort using the name Feritate. However there is rather confused and indiscriminate use of various versions of this name, for example:
“Wace (l. 13707) designates this personage, "sire de la Ferte," who came to England at the conquest from La Ferte Mace in the arrondissement of Domfront, department of the Orne, in the Passais-Normand, in the contingent of Henri de Domfront. Turulph, a companion of Rollo, obtained in 912 the barony of La Ferte (Firmitas) near Evreux, now la Ferte-Fresnel. His grandson of the same name lived in the time of Richard I. Radulphus de la Ferte lived before 1000; William his son gave the forest of Notre Dame des Bois to St-Evroult abbey. Hugh de la Ferte is considered by Norman People and Cleveland as the personage referred to by Wace, but this is an error, as pointed out by Le Prevost, who establishes that Hugh II, seignior of Ferte-en-Bray, became a monk in the abbey of St-Ouen in Rouen before the conquest, without leaving issue. William de la Ferte, who with Turgis de Tracie were governors of Main in 1073, were perhaps of this family. A William de la Feritate held Weston and Stokes by barony from the conquest of England. A sire de Ferte Mace, probably either Mathieu or William, married a sister of Odo, bishop of Bayeux, and his son William is mentioned in a charter of an archbishop of Tours, temp. St-Louis, from which it may be assumed that William also was present at Senlac. Richard de la Ferte accompanied duke Robert of Normandy to Palestine in 1096. From this family descended the marquesses of Sligo, barons Kilmaine and viscounts Montague.
--(Falaise Roll).”
Why am I unable to find French peers for Odericus or Jumieges, certainly there were chroniclers in medieval France and that point of view might supplement the English? And it would be really nice if there were more translations of French sources; I would love to be able to peruse the cartularies of Le Mont-Saint-Michel regarding the d’Avranches and possibly de Masci families, or articles like this: http://www.persee.fr/doc/bec_0373-6237_1861_num_22_1_445764#
In any event, despite the fact that I speak neither French nor Latin, and my sources are for the most part limited to those available as digitized media on the internet, and I’m not a historian, my research has been posted under the Sources tab titled Hamon de Masci – 1st baron of Dunham Massey? on the Haimo de Masci profile page here: Hamon de Mascy, 1st Baron of Dunham Massey (or the tab to the right)
