Malcolm II MacHeth Jarl of Ross - Sources?

Please see this Discussion http://stage.geni.com/discussions/151543?page=2

Telling me :-)
I've added sources that I've found suggesting that this is the son of Aedh (Mormaer of Ross), who marries Lulach's daughter, Olith (Tul) according to MacKay clan tradition, & becomes Mormaer of Moray.
Cf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormaer_Beth

Proviso: The Wikipedia suggestion that there was no Mormaer of Ross before mid 12th C, and that the son - Malcolm, was the first Mormaer of Ross. "Malcolm had earlier been imprisoned at Roxburgh for rebelling against David I, but when Malcolm's brother-in-law Somerled invaded Scotland, David was forced to relent and grant the earldom unto Malcolm." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Ross
This statement, however, presumes that Malcolm married Somerled's sister.
An event usually attributed to Malcolm MacAlexander - the supposed illegitimate son of Alexander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacHeths

At a first glance, the two Malcolm's life event dates appear to me to fit into that of one person -

1124: Máel Coluim mac Alaxandair first appears when Orderic Vitalis reports:“ But Máel Coluim, base-born son of Alexander, affected to snatch the kingdom from his uncle [David], and fought against him two sufficiently fierce battles. But David, who was loftier in understanding and in power and wealth, conquered him and his followers.”

One of the Máel Coluims married a sister of Somerled, king (or lord) of Argyll. If it were Mal MacAlexander, then this must have been prior to his capture and imprisonment in 1134.

1130: Orderic Vitalis wrote that Óengus with Máel Coluim (some modern versions say MacHeth, some say mac Alaxandair) invaded Gaelic Scotia with 5000 warriors. The Moravians were met by King David's general, an old Anglo-Saxon noble named Edward Siwardsson. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle reported "a great slaughter" . The Annals of Ulster tells that 4000 Moravians were killed, and only 1000 Gaels.The Annals of Innisfallen makes clear that what Orderic Vitalis wrote regarding the battle having taken place in Scotia indicates that it was an invasion. Siward defeated the Moravians and Óengus was killed. The Scoti then invaded Moray, which, as Orderic Vitalis put it, "lacked a defender and lord." Earl Angus was slain and MacEth escaped to the isles where he sought protection under Somerled, Lord of the Isles. It may have been about this time that MacEth married Somerleds sister and had two known offspring, Donald and Gormiath (Blue eyes), who married Harold Maddadarson, Norse Earl of Orkney and Caithness

1134 - >1156: Mal MacAlexander is captured & imprisoned at Roxburgh, and was still there in 1156 when his son was captured and imprisoned with him.

1153. Somerled first appears on record, when he supported kinsmen, identified as the sons of Malcolm, in their insurgence against the newly enthroned Malcolm IV

1157 Máel Coluim MacHeth is said to be reconciled with the king, Malcolm IV. It appears that he was restored [?] to the mormaerdom of Ross, which he held until his death.

C 1168 Máel Coluim MacHeth dies

At second or third glance, they still fit remarkably well into one person's life, to my eyes!

Private User ( cf://stage.geni.com/discussions/151543?msg=1056267&page=3)
reminds us that
=Malcolm MacHeth laid claim to the earldom of Moray, allegedly (per John of Fordun) by fibbing that he was the son of Oengus of Moray. He raised rebellion against David I, and was defeated and imprisoned until c. 1156, when internal and external strife caused Malcolm IV to enlist him as an ally by giving him the province of Ross (which had been part of Moray) for an earldom. =

John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records that "Malcolmus filius Macheth" lied to claim he was "filium Angusii comitis Moraviæ" who was killed "tempore…regis David…apud Strucathroth a Scotis" and, after his alleged father’s death, rebelled against King David who imprisoned him "in turre castri de Marchemond, quond nunc Roxburgh nuncupator"[276]. Duncan suggests that Malcolm MacHeth was the son of "Heth" who witnessed two charters in the early years of the reign of King David I[277]. The Chronicle of John of Fordun (Continuator - Annals) records that "Malcolm Macheth" made peace with the king the year after his son was captured[278]. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records that Malcolm MacHeth made peace with King Malcolm the year after his son was captured[279]. He was created Earl of Ross in 1162 or before[280].] http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SCOTTISH%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc268450047

So the entry above
=:1134 - >1156: Mal MacAlexander is captured & imprisoned at Roxburgh, and was still there in 1156 when his son was captured and imprisoned with him.=
could/should actually read Mal MacHeth.

"Jarl" is Norse. The ruler of the Orkneys (e.g. Thorfinn the Black) was a Jarl - a Scottish ruler of a Scottish province would be a Mormaer (early) or an Earl (c. 12th century and later).

The transition from Mormaer to Earl was relatively slow and uneven, so for quite some time both titles were in use.

Yes. Changed that straight away.

Well, there *is* the difference in parentage, and perhaps in age: Malcolm MacHeth was supposedly the son of Aed of Moray (and/or Ross), while Malcolm Mac Alaxandair was *certainly* the son of Alexander I.

Starting with Alexander I, his dates are c. 1078-1124, and his son Malcolm (who was *not* the son of his wife Sibylla - the marriage appears to have been childless) was probably born c. 1100. By 1124 Malcolm was old enough to put up a fight for the crown, which he lost. If he and MacHeth are *not* the same person, his imprisonment in 1034 is the last heard of him. But he had at least two sons before then, and they made trouble for Malcolm IV early in his reign, with the assistance of Somerled of Argyll, who was a distaff-side relative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerled.

Aedh, if he was the same person who married the daughter of Lulach, must have been some twenty years older than Alexander I, which would make him a very old man by 1124, and it is probably not surprising that he disappears from the records by 1130. Malcolm mac Heth - if he was Aedh's son and not grandson - would be correspondingly older than the other Malcolm, and it is rather remarkable that he survived until 1168.

About this time, though, "mac" was transitioning from literally "son of" to a more general "descendant of", and Malcolm MacHeth may have been referencing a recent but not immediate ancestor. (One implication here is that he may actually have *been* Oengus' son, and John of Fordun was reporting anti-MacHeth propaganda when he claimed it was a lie.)

People who think they were one and the same tend to assume that Alexander I had a liaison with a *daughter* of Aed, and that Malcolm identified himself by his mother's ancestry. (This also gets around the age problem quite nicely.)

Malcolm IV used the earldom of Ross to pry MacHeth and his son(s) away from Somerled's cause and get them on his own side. The MacHeths of Ross continued to be an unruly bunch off and on until they tangled with Ferchar mac in tSagairt and came off very much the worse (most of them minus their heads). King Alexander II made *him* Mormaer/Earl of Ross, and his descendants held the title until the late 14th century.

One needs to be rather careful when wielding Occam's Razor - remember "Thorfinn-Macbeth"? :-D

Dorothy Dunnett dropped the ball on that one :-)

So the solution turns on our decision about the status of the John of Fordun quote that says
Malcolm MacHeth lies & says he's the son of Oengus.

If the tree is as we have it right now, with Oengus as Heth's son - then it makes no sense for Malcolm to lie. He's still a descendant of Heth - as Oengus's brother. Surely he's in line once Oengus dies.

Could it be Malcolm MacAlexander who pretends to be Oengus' descendent? Doesn't seem likely.
A claim to the Dunkeld throne vs a claim to the Moray Earldom? But maybe the one bolsters the other?

We know Malcolm & Oengus fight together.
Lulach may have had more than one daughter Oengus may have had a sister or daughter who married Malcolm.
We know that Somerled's sister may have married Malcolm (MacA or MacH?) could there be an inlaw connection being alluded to?
I'm reaching at straws, I know.

We now have Justin, of all people, waving Occam's Razor around. :-(

I went to a production of Sweeney Todd last night - 'The demon barber of Fleet Street. '. Less talking of razors if you please :-)

:-D :-D :-D

The situation is complicated by a Bishop Wimund, who from a power base in the Isles invaded the mainland and caused enough trouble that the King of Scots (David I) bought him off with Furness in Cumbria (where Wimund had allegedly begun his career as a lowly monk). But the people of his new domain, with either the assistance or the incitement of said king, turned on Wimund, captured, blinded and castrated him, and delivered him to captivity. Eventually he was released and spent the remainder of his life at the abbey of Byland, in Yorkshire, where he was wont to regale his fellows with tales of his adventures.

Wimund has been confused with both Malcolm of Moray and Malcolm mac Alaxandair, but in all probability was an ambitious upstart with no connection to either. There is a slight possibility, supported by some historians, that he was an extramarital son of William FitzDuncan. He is *certainly* not the Malcolm whom King Malcolm IV made Earl of Ross - Wimund was securely installed at Byland by then.

See the PoMS database.

It says: "Malcolm Macheth, earl of Ross, first appears rebelling against King David I in 1130, possibly even in 1124. He was captured in 1134 and imprisoned in Roxburgh Castle, where he remained for the next twenty-three years, being released in 1157. He has been described as an illegitimate son of Alexander I though this is probably unlikely; he was more likely the son of Earl Aed, or Heth (d.a.1130?). He was married in or before 1134 to a sister of Somerled, lord of Argyll (d. 1164). He had an unknown number of sons, and only one, Donald Macheth (fl.1156) is named, when he was captured at Whithorn and joined his father in Roxburgh Castle. Malcolm was reconciled with King Malcolm in 1157, and was granted the earldom of Ross, which he held until his death in 1168. [http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/49354] _Handbook of British Chronology_, 518: He was born _circa_ 1105-15 and may have been an illegitimate son of King Alexander I of Scotland. He died on 23 October 1168."

http://poms.cch.kcl.ac.uk/db/record/person/324/

Have we got one troublemaking Malcolm, or two? This seems to be a question that's difficult to resolve.

If there *were* two, it might resolve some chronological difficulties, such as how Malcolm could be married to Somerled's (sister, daughter, whatever) and have sons, and at the same time be securely locked up.

If he was married in 1134. easy enough to have a son old enough to join his father at Roxburgh in 1157.

I've badly been wanting to go down the road of Somerledi's genealogy, but feel I must finish cleaning up here first:-)

I might go with you if you wait until mid-January. I've spent so much time on this one the rest of my life is badly in need of some attention. I'm told there's a holiday coming up in the next week or so. Really need to check a calendar and see where we are.

:-) It's a date, put it on the calendar:-)

Can anybody access this item? http://rms.stir.ac.uk/converis-stirling/publication/1187

The gist is supposed to be that it was Malcolm mac Alaxandair who was locked up in Roxburgh, but no one has quoted any findings regarding Malcolm MacHeth - not even whether he and Mac Alaxandair were or were not the same person.

I sent the guy a request to view it. I'm doubtful, but let's see if he replies.

Okay, he did - and very courteously sent us the article. Now we need to figure out how to discuss his findings, without breaking his copyright.

Unfortunately the text provides no enlightenment about Malcolm macHeth, other than confirming that he was not the same person as Malcolm mac Alaxandair. So we're really no farther along with that angle. :-(

But it does allow a substantial amount of cleanup around Malcolm son of Alexander and his sons who were nephews of Somerled.

Earlier I posted an extract from PoMS (the Paradox of Medieval Scotland, a prosopographic database). It says:

"Malcolm Macheth, earl of Ross, first appears rebelling against King David I in 1130, possibly even in 1124. He was captured in 1134 and imprisoned in Roxburgh Castle, where he remained for the next twenty-three years, being released in 1157. He has been described as an illegitimate son of Alexander I though this is probably unlikely; he was more likely the son of Earl Aed, or Heth (d.a.1130?). He was married in or before 1134 to a sister of Somerled, lord of Argyll (d. 1164). He had an unknown number of sons, and only one, Donald Macheth (fl.1156) is named, when he was captured at Whithorn and joined his father in Roxburgh Castle. Malcolm was reconciled with King Malcolm in 1157, and was granted the earldom of Ross, which he held until his death in 1168. [http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/49354] _Handbook of British Chronology_, 518: He was born _circa_ 1105-15 and may have been an illegitimate son of King Alexander I of Scotland. He died on 23 October 1168."

http://poms.cch.kcl.ac.uk/db/record/person/324/

http://www.geni.com/discussions/151833?msg=1059311

We now have enough information to easily disentangle the two Malcolms.

Apparently Malcolm mac Alaxandair was the one who was imprisoned in 1134.

Malcolm MacHeth reconciled with Malcolm IV in 1157 and was made Earl of Ross.

But...which of them married the sister of Somerled? (Which of them had the opportunity to *meet* a sister of Somerled, even?)

Malcolm son of William.

That's what the article suggests, and it's always been clear that Somerled and his heirs were allied with the "MacWilliam claimants". At least that's my impression but I admit I tend to skim over anything that has too much about rightful kings and their rebellions ;)