What is going on?

At first it seemed just a curious coincidence that the new "project page" was on a Dutch server (ie. completely unaffiliated with Geni) but then i remembered that Dimitri lives in the Netherlands.

http://ragnar-lodbrog-and-his-legend.webnode.nl/

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

You seem very disappointed, Alex Moes. It is such shame, should you leave this project in this a way.

Of course noone is forcing you to stay, or to collaborate. As free as you were to join the project, you are free to leave as well.

It was clear from the beginning that you do not appriciate the productions of the Triple A Collective, and yet you joined in on this project to our pleasant surprise. Sorry to disappoint you, yet again.

My personal apoligize for that.

The project is not collaborative??

Stop being so dramatic, I did not ask for an apology but as usual you do not address the actual questions asked.

Actually It was I who created the Ragnar Lodbrog project. To my big dissapointment people keept on making changes in it that was complely out of bounce. So I desided that I needed to make sure people could´nt constantly mess around with it, but still see it.
Ragnar LOdbrog project is not a project that people can freely ruin as they see fit. ITs collaborative project, but there is a limit to that,

It was I who made that desition! So I dont have to clean up all the time. If pople think it need changes feel free to discuss it in a debate and I will most surtenly respond to that!
So I think you guys should lay of on attacking Dimitri here. If you have beef with this. Talk to me!

Alex Moes, the way you posed your questions were rather needlesly rude. Thank you Anette Guldager Boye for answering Alex his questions.

Justin Durand, I assume you are questioning whether the project is collaborative? You do not want to collaborate on Triple A Collective projects. But that does not make you non collaborative.

Guarding the quality of a project content can be discussed in public, managing that content lies in the hands of the project maker, according to the Collective's vision, in order to protect it's quality.

Yes, there are limitations, as Anette told you.

I'm sad about this .... hosting the project on an external server I can't access means that I have to complain about the spelling errors instead of correcting them (for instance, on the front page, Heimskringla is spelled "Teimskringla").

I understand the problem of drive-by edits; Wikipedia solved (?) this by making reverts almost effortless, but Geni's limited facilities make that more of an issue. Also, Geni doesn't offer subpages for projects.

Life would be easier if project pages could be hosted on wiki.geni.com and backed with a full Mediawiki setup ... but life's not that easy.

So what do you suggest I do here?
Harald Tveit Alvestrand

At some point people had even removed all the sources that mention Ragnar. No easy fix her. It seems to be the way things are going with this projekt.
If I was to lieve it alone, soon you would not be able to recognize this project at all or if half of it was deleted!
Apparently because everybody has something t osay about Ragnar!

Dimitri Gazan, I don't understand what you mean when you say that I do not want to collaborate on this project. I'm already collaborating on it. If you look at the project page you'll see that I was the 4th person to join.

I am uncomfortable with the external server, and this is a project i only intend to read.

The problem is, it is no longer a collaborative Geni project if it hosted externally. And Geni becomes an advertisement for another organization instead of a collaboration by Geni members.

But Geni members are the ones who "own" the profiles that house this project, and have contributed their efforts for years.

If i have it right, this is (not so simply) an issue about editing a front page?

What about a temporary scratch pad project for working through the edits?

Anette Guldager Boye, I think a better strategy might have been to add instructions to the project page. Something along the lines of "Please do not edit this page without permission of Anette or Dimirit."

I did that with one project when it was first being launched. I didn't have any problems. Geni projects give edit right to everyone who joins a project. That's part of the design to make the project collaborative. If someone had edited the page without permission, I think I might have complained to Geni, but I don't know how they would have reacted.

If this is going to be a project managed by the "Triple A Collective" and not open to user collaboration, it might be a good idea to create a parallel project for users. In the past we've worked to prevent duplicate projects, but this is something new. Ragnar Lodbrok is an important figure. He deserves to have a project where users can participate in creating a project information page.

That is all very good, but when people start deleting passages in the project and I had to put in on more than ones. A nice note does not help. I have tried that with a couple of profiles that keep getting messed up. I have asked people not to add anything without mention it. I have had not one that wrote to me, but 1000 of changes, so unfortunately people do not respect that I am afread.
So I dont think that would do anything. I am open for ideers, but again its a waist of work if I just let it happen.

Anette - for profile overviews you can lock them as a curator, the same as any other field. Then in a merge extraneous text is automatically discarded instead of appended. If a member wishes to contribute additions to the field, they can submit through contact manager, discussion, or uploaded document.

Projects do not (yet?) have field locking, so a different control strategy is needed, the same as for any other multiple contribution document: a backup for an easy restore; a scratch pad project; a discussion utility. I think I'd go for the parallel project for member contributions and the backup on the external server.

I don't think Geni wants a project to redirect off the Geni site.

Maybee Geni doesnt whant it of server, but a different strategy is needed. As it is now people can change projects as they wish and people will have to spend time resurrecting them as they where.

If anyone has a solution to this dilemma it would be nice, but right now I really dont know what to do.

When it comes to profile I know that you can look the profile. That is also what I have started to do. My point is that people do not respect a nice note please do not make changes.

I do hope there is a solution. I just had one to many messing with it. Got feed up with it!

So yes we do need field locking for projects. That would make life so much easier!.

Anette, I understand what you're saying but the message that started this discussion complains about you and Dimitri removing text, not about other users removing text.

What you and Dimitri are trying to do is create a curated project where you can lock the text and actions the same way you as a curator can lock profiles.

I see your reasons for that but I have a different philosophy. I like to keep everything as open as possible, even if it hurts a bit. You have the profile for Ragnar locked up, so it is important that the project be more open. Or, so I think.

Annette, from the change log of the "about me" for this project, I can see exactly one person editing it apart from you, Dimitiri, Justin, Remi and Alex (all of which I trust to do sensible things).

When you say "1000s of changes", are you talking about all the changes to all the profiles connected to the project, or is there part of the history I'm not seeing?

I'd prefer it if project pages were pages on the Geni wiki, because the control tools on MediaWiki are *much* better than what Geni can put together with the resources they have available for supporting projects - but it doesn't seem like they have the resources to do that either (I don't even know if they have considered the idea).

Justin I hadn't thought of that point, and it is really important.

I do think we need to keep profiles as neat as possible: it's the core offering. But a seminal ancestor is "owned" by "all" of us, and we need to have the avenues to contribution open and continual, or we're putting Ragnar back in the expensive textbooks (etc) and out of our family trees.

Why not try the "open" Ragnar project again now that you're secure about the backup?

Justin Durand, you misinterpret my response to your first post. I was responding to the word collaborative in general speaking. I did not say that your were not collaborating on this Ragnar project.

But you moved on in this discussion and picked up on the general meaning of collaboration and presented some good thoughts. I think we both have discussed one or two of these ideas before, a little while ago.

You suggest something like this; "Please do not edit this page without permission of Anette, Loretta or Dimitri."

That's what we more or less trying to achieve with our projects with the Triple A Collective. In our latest project: Geni’s Photographers Plaza we say:

For reservations (for Photographers ONLY!) and further details on how to participate in this Plaza,
please contact project manager.

This actually works. None is messing about with the content of the project. You are absolutely right, Justin.

We did not consider using these kind of wording because it is more familiar with us, using it on the Plaza's. But using it on the Ragnar project doesn't seem to me like a solution to the problem so well described by Harald Tveit Alvestrand; 'drive by' editing, hahaha!!!

The Plaza's present Personal Projects Pages. Ragnar is a popular historical figure. And perhaps it is an option to consider for everybody who feels the need to, like you say;

"create a parallel project for users.

Ragnar Lodbrok is an important figure. He deserves to have a project where users can participate in creating a project information page."

It is a big misunderstanding though, this Triple A Collective project is not open for collaboration. Like Anette Guldager Boye described very clearly, there is a limit to collaboration when users keep changing very important data, like how names are spelled in the correct way.

If this project is not open for collaboration, then why invite members to collaborate?

It was open to collaberation, until people started to destroy it!

I find it actually very strange because I have other projects that I have no problem with, but this one seem to attracted everyone, also people that dont collaborate very well.

Why this particular project can not be alloud to be fairly intact I dont get, but its the fact.

So as I said if anyone has an ideer of what to do about it.

Unfortunately what I here is that I am the one that does not colleberate. NO one seems to be bothered by the fact that the project get taken apart.!

So people tell me what am I to do with it. LIve it as it is, and not care? or what????

Dimitri,

Geni users already have an idea about what it means that a project is collaborative. If you want to give it a different meaning -- that only you and Anette can make edits, you should remove all the people who have joined the project so they don't think they are allowed to make edits. And, you should put a statement on the project page that people should not join.

Justin what is tour problem talking to me, No one seems to offer a solution. Everyone seems to upset about the fact that I dont want the project taken apart.
So I would very much like an answer to my question insteed of you guys telling us WE do not collaberate.
Justin I think you know me well enought to know that I prefer to collaberate, so why keep on pondering on the fact that I just want the project to be fairly intact.

Why does people have an issue with that.

COuld you please tell me that?

You are a funny guy, Justin Durand :)

Anette

I've offered a solution, I think? And Justin offered another, and Harald a third?

- use the Geni wiki http://wiki.geni.com/
- put the backup on the external server for restores. I've done this is an simpler (for me) way by drafting out a project document on my google drive
- Add text on the front page about please submitting changes to a "scratch pad" project

What won't work technically is a project redirect to an external server.

So people could you come up with some reasonable solutions instead.

I want it to work. It does not work as it is.

So ideers instead of what you are doing know.!

Anette, I offered a solution. You hated it.

I had good luck with putting something on the project page asking people not to edit it. You don't want to try it because it doesn't always work for profiles.

People have an expectation that they should be allowed to edit if they are project members. You want to change that. I don't have any other ideas for you.

We can read and follow this discussion as well, Erica Howton.

You say;
"What won't work technically is a project redirect to an external server."

Technically the Ragnar project is 'partly' protected from direct intervention by altering crucial information without being it discussed up front.

We have chosen to protect this information, which is still open for any discussion, but under the supervision of Anette, who can implement crucial changes if a discussion would lead to that conclusion.