Add your spurious pedigree info!

Started by Erica Howton on Sunday, September 27, 2015
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9/27/2015 at 4:43 PM

It seems there is not really a current or comprehensive list of disproven pedigrees "out there."

So ... Let's build our own.

Particularly as DNA testing is disproving many cherished notions, it's important we share what we learn.

Please add your discoveries.

9/27/2015 at 7:58 PM

Bogus pedigrees from John "The Martyr" Rogers

Rev. John Rogers "The Martyr"

Many ROGERS families have a tradition of descent from the Martyr, but family traditions are so often a product of wishful thinking that no such tradition should be accepted as true without proof. It should be borne in mind that two contemporary pedigrees of John ROGERS exist and are housed in the British Museum:

1. The Visitation of the County of Warwick. Made in 1563 and continued and enlarged by another Visitation in 1619. This pedigree gives, by name, the eleven children of the Martyr.

2. The other pedigree is contained in the Harleian Manuscript. Among the pedigrees in the manuscript are the results of Visitations ca. 1634, including a ROGERS pedigree that is in agreement with the earlier one, while being more complete with regard to his grandchildren.

Chester's subsequent work has supported the accuracy of the above pedigrees, so these, and only these, are the children of the Martyr:

Ambrose ROGERS
Bernard ROGERS
Augustine ROGERS
Barnaby ROGERS
Susanna "Susan" ROGERS
Elizabeth ROGERS

Below are given the bogus traditions debunked by Chester (1861) in his scholarly work on John ROGERS.

The most prominent of bogus pedigrees is that of Rev. Richard ROGERS (1551-1618) of Weathersfield, Essex, England, supposed son of the Martyr. That the Martyr had no son, Richard, should be sufficient grounds for dismissing this pedigree without further consideration, but it is certainly relevant that in none of Rev. Richard's own writings, nor in any biography of him, contemporary or otherwise, was a claim made that he was son of the Martyr.

The claim is made that the descendants of Rev. William JENKYN are descendants of the Martyr because William's wife, Mary ROGERS, was "granddaughter of the Martyr." However, Mary ROGERS is the daughter of the above Rev. Richard ROGERS, so the JENKYN's claim rests on a bogus connection. So great is the desire of descendants to cling to this long-held tradition that adherants rationalize it by saying that the Reverand had "changed his name" to Richard. Of course, no evidence of such a name-change exists.

1. Joseph Lemuel Chester. 1861. John Rogers: the Compiler of the First Authorised English Bible; the Pioneer of the English Reformation; and its First Martyr. Longman, Green, Longman, & Roberts, London.


More here:


One kit in the Rogers DNA Project ~might~ belong to the line of John "The Martyr."

Haplogroup E3b1

Kit 75032, William Rogers.b.c. 1640 Charlestown MA.
Possible claim to John Rogers The Martyr

Note: descendants of Thomas Rogers, Mayflower Passenger are Haplogroup R-M269 (this is now a well-established line).


Note: Alas, Wikipedia and Dictionary of National Biography (!!) repeat the false line from John the Martyr to William Jenkyn,_William_(DNB00)

9/29/2015 at 3:30 PM

Wow, Edward Doty, "Mayflower" Passenger got quite a start in the world for an indentured servant!

Um, no, he didn't.

 His alleged baptisms  -  1599, Shropshire, England; 14 May 1598, St Mary le Strand, Thurburton Hills, England - were exposed as fictional by Neil D. Thompson, The American Genealogist 66 (1988), p. 215.

There is ongoing research into his origins and a good DNA test project. is likely the most reliable source for up to date news.

Checking family associations, by the way, is a very good strategy for these early colonials. Many have been organized for many years and are professional & well organized.

9/29/2015 at 8:23 PM

This is a great thread! I am eagerly, looking forward to finally, getting my very first DNA results from 23&me, mid- November-ish!!! I have a Line to John "The Martyr" Rogers. Can you guys tell me, off-hand, if this path is accurate or bogus?

Rev. John Rogers "The Martyr" is your 16th great uncle.

You [Me]→ Linda Sue Cox my mother → Gladys Mae Lockwood Tyler (Kelley) her mother → Vivian Lucille Kelley/Payne/alias- Smith (Cromer) her mother → Floyd Francis Cromer her father → William Harrison Cromer his father → Harrison "Abe" Cromer his father → Sarah Jane Cromer (Covalt) his mother → Timothy Isaac Covalt her father → Abraham Covalt, Jr. his father → Abraham Colt, III his father → Abraham Colt, Jr. his father → Hannah (Loomis) Colt his mother → Mary (Chauncey) Loomis her mother → Catherine Chauncy (Eyre) her mother → Robert Ayers (Eyre) her father → Elizabeth Rogers his mother → John Rogers her father → Rev. John Rogers "The Martyr" his brother

Is it a verified/known fact, that he is in the Ginger Rogers, lineage? That is where I discovered him, originally.
She is liste das my 14th Cousin thrice removed.

Thank You!
xoxoxoTheresa Renée

Private User
9/29/2015 at 8:36 PM

Frances White Wells! Frances Wells

Traditionally cited as "the daughter of Sir Richard Whyte of Hutton and Lady Catherine Weston", she was certainly not the latter and possibly not the former either.

Lady Catherine was Sir Richard's *second* wife, baptized in 1607, and was *highly* unlikely to have had a daughter in 1622 (Frances' traditional but unattested birth date), if she was even married to Sir Richard by then (marriage date unattested either). And while this couple *did* have a daughter Frances, she could not have been old enough to be sent overseas unattended, was listed on the 1642 passport allowing the White family to leave England, probably went to and settled in Rome with the rest of her family, and did not return to England for decades (still less venture to America). When she did return, she married a cousin, John Petre, as his third and final wife, and settled down to a quiet life on his country estates.

As for Sir Richard's first wife, she was an Anne Gray, daughter of sharp lawyer Andrew Gray of Hinxworth and the child of his old age. (How that came about, we do not know and can only guess.) Sir Richard and Anne certainly had one daughter Mary, probably a son who died young, and some sources say there was a second daughter (who *may* have been Frances).

Anne was out of the picture, probably deceased, some time between c. 1620 and 1625. Sir Richard and Lady Catherine were certainly married by 1628, which is the probable birth date of son and heir George.

The difficulty, of course, is that "White" is a very common name and occurs sporadically in Virginia without any clear connections to families back in England. (A William White, laborer, was among the first Jamestown settlers, and an Edward and a Jeremy White are found on the 1624/25 Muster roll. An Ambrose White and his descendants were early settlers of the lower Eastern Shore, an unexplained Henry White appears as an adult c. 1650, a Thomas White of Buckinghamshire shows up c. 1645, etc.)

I wound up giving Frances the benefit of the doubt, based mainly on the assertions of Jerome White, Surveyor-General of Maryland 1661-1670, that he was related to her and to her daughter, and on the tentative (unattested, I must add) identification of *this* Jerome White with the son by the same name of Sir Richard and Lady Catherine.

9/29/2015 at 11:01 PM

Amy Nordahl Cote we forgot to write up in a coherent fashion the discovery of Bogus Lady Mary Howard Scott, supposed ancestress of Henry Scott of Rattlesden, whose family settled in Ipswich, Massachusetts; "Mary" being an illegitimate grand daughter of Henry Vlll via Kathryn Carey; married to a younger son of the Scott's of Scot Hall, who track back to the Baliol's ...

I see that fraudulent pedigree used in the otherwise excellent database here:

Quoting known fabricator E.S. White, no less ...

9/29/2015 at 11:07 PM

Now part of why we were left in slack jawed disbelief at the sheer nerve of this fraud is that it is so evidently fraud. It has a Gustav Anjou smell to it in fact; graft known pedigrees together via a (likely) "died young" younger son, hard to prove or disprove, as he "was" documented.

But a fictional daughter of the Lord High Admiral of England?,_1st_Earl_of_Nottingham

The nerve ...

Anyway, people

- dukes didn't lose their daughters so easily
- they didn't send descendants to Massachusetts
- don't be a chump & keep these lies in circulation

... Stamp them out here!

Private User
9/29/2015 at 11:14 PM

Not to mention all the fake Drakes and Hawkinses from Massachusetts to Virginia.... :-D

9/29/2015 at 11:20 PM

Theresa Renée Eléna Tossas-Cox I don't think so but I need a Geni profile link to fix it & also see what sourcing has already been done.

Google so far tells me the Elizabeth Rogers who married Thomas Ayers was daughter of a John Rogers of Dorset. That does not fit the London orientation of John the Martyr,

I'm guessing a Geni smerge.

9/29/2015 at 11:20 PM

And Maine! They show up in my tree there !!

9/30/2015 at 6:10 AM

Michael King, Immigrant, Norwich, Norfolk/Nansemond, VA - falsely claimed to be the son of Francis King and Dorothy Aston of Cheshire, England.

Michael King, immigrant

Capt. Francis King

Here's a familiar scenario:

Francis and Dorothy's line, from Cheshire, has a grand pedigree. Descendants settled in Stafford County, VA.

Michael's line, from Norwich (according to his great-grandson), was founded by an indentured servant. He settled in Nansemond County, VA.

There is no documentation to support a relationship.

Descendants of Francis and Michael are also in separate yDNA groups, thank goodness. Francis's descendants are in the "William Alfred King" group.

DNA results chart:

King family lines:

about Michael:

about Francis:

9/30/2015 at 6:52 AM

Oh golly, did someone say Fake Drakes?

Here's a target for many problem pedigrees:

Elizabeth Drake? Council, surname and place of origin completely undocumented, possibly from Devon like her husband.

Christian Counsell

* She is often claimed to be the daughter of Sir Francis Drake MP, 1st Baronet. White Sir Francis did have a daughter Elizabeth, she is well-documented as being the wife of John Trefusis. There's no way she could have married both men, and had all the kids from both marriages.

Elizabeth Trefusis

* Many trees show her as the daughter of Adam Drake and Joan/Jone Royce, who reportedly lived in Norfolk (a long way from Devon). Some trees try to have it both ways and call Elizabeth's father "Francis Adam Drake." But there is no proof of these parents, who are allegedly related to Sir Francis Drake, Privateer.

* There seems to be an enormous desire on the part of descendants to force a connection to Sir Francis Drake, Privateer. Many trees even show him as her father (he had NO documented children).

Sir Francis Drake, Vice Admiral

Elizabeth Drake? Council is a magnet for problem pedigrees!

Private User
9/30/2015 at 7:08 AM

So is Richard Hawkins of Westmoreland, VA Richard Hawkins, of Westmoreland County. Everybody want to tack him onto Sir John Hawkins' family tree, usually as the son of Admiral Sir Richard Hawkins, MP, who did have a son named Richard, but he had little or nothing to do with Virginia and spent most of his life in Devon, England.

Private User
9/30/2015 at 7:30 AM

In fact, I just ousted another fake "son of the Admiral" (it was Richard Hawkins of Westmoreland again).

9/30/2015 at 9:36 AM

Bass/Basse lines of Virginia and North Carolina

Brief overview:

The Bass/Basse lines of Virginia and North Carolina have confused researchers for years. The old tree had everyone descended from a Huguenot family (connected to John Adams) who married into the Nansemond Tribe--but thanks to DNA testing, we now know there are several unrelated lines. There is possible Chowanoke ancestry in one line, there is African American ancestry in at least two lines (which may or may not be related to each other), and so many Basses get mixed up with each other--so many Johns and Richards!--the DNA has forced us to rethink what we thought we knew. There is also some tension between some Basses (my line) and the Nansemond Tribe, with researchers on both sides reaching very different conclusions from the same records. Many of my cousins were deeply disappointed at being disqualified from tribal membership (there's no blood quantum; it's lineage-based).

See the Bass section in Paul Heinegg's Free African Americans for some documentation of the lines with Free People of Color, with the caveat that he has not corrected this section to account for the DNA.

There are at least seven different yDNA groups, by my count, who all once claimed to be from the line of Nathaniel Basse. There's no evidence for non-paternal events or adoption, but that remains a popular theory for why some lines long appeared to belong together:

Chart showing some, not all, of the Bass lines:

I am from one of the African-American lines. Many of us are collaborating in an effort to parse the truth from the records and the DNA.

The Geni tree will need to be unknotted eventually. It currently shows all the lines as if they are related to each other.

Eventually I would like to address it all--but for now I have only tackled a few minor issues. Might be best to make a Bass/Basse project eventually.

Here is the immigrant everyone once thought they were descended from--a proven son of Nathaniel Basse:

Capt. John Basse, Sr.

Many of my cousins are convinced that even though John Basse 1616 is proven to be from another yDNA line, we are still descended from his Nansemond wife, Elizabeth. I am highly skeptical of this in the absence of any evidence that she had children with another man besides her husband. Perhaps this is wishful-thinking on the part of my cousins who have long believed they are Nansemond by descent. Feelings run very hot on the subject.

There is a Bass Surname DNA Study Group on Facebook--Bass descendants are invited to join (or contact me if you have questions).

10/1/2015 at 6:37 AM

Thank you, Erica Howton

Here is also, a discussion thread, from someone else, working in the John "The Martyr" Rogers lines, for anyone who may be curious.

10/1/2015 at 6:59 AM

Oh and here is the link you requested

Rev. John Rogers "The Martyr"

My path, has already changed, in reflection of th changes Charlene made, yesterday. But you can see, the path I had, in my first comment on this thread, to walk through anything, you might want to check up on.ée-Eléna-Delgado-Tossas+is+rela...

xoxoxoxoTheresa Renée

10/1/2015 at 7:56 AM

Amy Nordahl Cote

That s very interesting, all of the differences in conclusions, whilst utilizing the same reference materials! 😋
And yes, I have also, experienced that many people are quite passionate about their ancestry and/or supposed ancestry. 💥

Just for future comparison, I am, currently, getting this (non- blood) path here through the still "knotted" Geni lineages.

John Basse "The Immigrant" is your 12th great aunt's husband's first cousin.

You[Me] → Linda Sue Cox my mother → Gladys Mae Lockwood Tyler (Kelley) her mother → Vivian Lucille Kelley/Payne/alias- Smith (Cromer) her mother → Floyd Francis Cromer her father → Elizabeth Ann Cromer (Grosvenor) his mother → Araminta Margaret Grosvenor (Whitney) Houser her mother → Abigail Whitney (Blanchard) her mother → Stephen Blanchard, IV her father → Pvt. Stephen Blanchard, III his father → Hannah Blanchard his mother → Joseph Blanchard her father → Thomas Blanchard his father → Samuel Blanchard his father → Nathaniel Blanchard his brother → Susannah Blanchard (Bates) his wife → Deacon Thomas Bass her husband → Dea. Samuel Bass his father → Nathaniel Basse his brotherée-Eléna-Delgado-Tossas+is+rela...

I am also, looking forward to my first DNA results, from 23&me, sometime mid- November, as well as, to how his (and other) genealogical mysteries, will end up, in the future.

Best Regards,
Theresa Renée

10/1/2015 at 8:26 AM

Theresa--Deacon Samuel Basse is the second great-grandfather of President John Adams, through his paternal grandmother, Hannah Bass Adams.

His father is thought by most to be Humphrey Basse, a Huguenot. There's no baptismal record for Samuel at Saffron Walden, Essex, but his wife was baptised there, and he married her there in 1625:

However, some show Samuel's father as Benjamin Basse:

"Most seem to feel [Deacon Samuel Basse] was born in Saffron Walden, Essex, England. Although his baptism record apparently is nowhere to be found in Saffron, most have somehow come upon the date of 4 May 1600, with a smaller number citing 30 March 1596 -- although apparently without verification

Proponents of his Saffron birth seem to lean to Benjamin Bass and Mary (unknown maiden name) as his parents."

Researchers also disagree on whether Nathaniel Basse, whose son John 1616 founded the "Nansemond line," is the brother of Samuel and/or the son of Humphrey.

There may have been two Nathaniels who were confused with one another, one from the Huguenot family, who had no children, the other a ship's captain of unknown origin!

That's yet another Basse puzzler!

"August 30, 1654 - A deposition in England on behalf of the three surviving sisters of Nathaniel Basse, identified as his coheirs, asserts that Basse died in Virginia without issue."

10/1/2015 at 9:07 AM

This line has been bothering me. I'm a direct descendant of Robert Russell of Andover, MA -- Robert Russell, II -- through his daughter, Sarah (Russell) Ingalls. As far as I always knew, Robert Russell was a yeoman/farmer in Andover, not unlike his early Andover neighbors. But suddenly, on geni, I see him listed as "Robert Russell II", the son of "Sir Robert Russell I" and the grandson of "Sir Thomas Russell, MP". Burke's is cited as a source, but no page number is given.

I am highly doubtful of this connection, but maybe there have been recent discoveries to confirm it. Is anyone out there familiar with this family?

By the way, I live in Andover, and a write-up of the Russell family, produced by Charlotte Helen Abbott in the early 1900s, makes no mention of a noble background for Robert.

Private User
10/1/2015 at 10:54 AM

MPs can be checked on History of Parliament Online, except for two potholes, one in the Cromwellian period (1640-1660) and the other covering most of the 15th century (1422-1506). (Both areas are being worked on, but nothing has seen publication yet.)

I'm starting to smell one or more Bad Merges and some serious mistakes. The Thomas Russell who is supposedly the grandfather of your guy is alleged to be from Yorkshire - but Sir Thomas Russell, the MP, was from *Worcestershire*. (And Beoley, cited as his birthplace, *is* in Worcestershire.)

Shaw's Knights has Thomas Russell knighted in 1603, right enough - but no *Robert* Russell at any time. And by then they were catching upwards of 90% of all knightings.

Sir Thomas' son and heir was William Russell (also an MP in his time), born c. 1602 (which raises doubts about a "1600" birthdate for "Sir" Robert).

History of Parliament Online explicitly tells us not to confuse William Russell of Witley with Sir William Russell, Baronet, Treasurer of the Navy. It gives the Witley man no titles but notes the following:

"As part of his marriage settlement his father-in-law, Sir Thomas Reade, had promised Russell £500 towards the costs of purchasing a baronetcy.31 However, initial attempts to procure the title via the courtier Endymion Porter† proved unsuccessful. The baronetcy was finally obtained in 1627, but Reade refused to pay, whereupon Russell sued him in Chancery and got permission to levy the money from Reade’s lands.32"

(The question then becomes whether the baronetcy was ever actually paid for and therefore whether it was official. In any case his only surviving son had no sons and the matter became moot.)

Something else that surfaced during this investigation was that the Russells of Witley had Catholic leanings, if they weren't actively Catholic themselves - which puts their chances of joining a Separatist/Puritan settlement rather low. (Maryland, maybe; Virginia, possibly; Massachusetts - I don't think so.)

Private User
10/1/2015 at 11:14 AM

Matter of fact, there was a "Doctor [Walter] Russell, Gentleman" at Jamestown with the First Supply, and a John and a William Russell (both identified as "Gentleman") with the Second Supply.

How they fared, we do not know, but considering that the Jamestown colony almost starved to death 1609-1610....

10/1/2015 at 11:15 AM

Geoffrey Chaucer! Not anybody's direct ancestor!

Here's the purported line, from the The Complete Peerage, no less, as given by Leo van de Pas:

Geoffrey Chaucer, born circa 1345, died 25 October 1400 and was
buried in Westminster Abbey, married Philippa de Roet
Generation I
1.Thomas Chaucer, of Ewelme
died 1434
married Maud de Burghersh
daughter Generation II

Generation II
1.Alice Chaucer
born circa 1404, died 20 May 1475 (9 June 1475 ?)
married (1)
Sir John Philip
died 2 October 1415 Harfleur
married (2) before November 1424
Thomas Montagu, 4th Earl of Salisbury
son of John Montagu, 3rd Earl of Salisbury and Maud Francis
born 1388, died 3 November 1428 Meung
married (3) contract 11 November 1430
William de La Pole, 1st Duke of Suffolk
son of Michael de La Pole, 2nd Earl of Suffolk and Katherine Stafford
born 16 October 1396 Cotton, Suffolk, murdered 2 May 1450 off Dover
children Generation III

Generation III
3rd marriage
1.Anne de La Pole
married Gaillard IV de Durfort, Seigneur de Duras et de Blanquefort
son of Gaillard III de Durfort and Indie de La Lande
children, Generation IV-1

2.John de La Pole, 2nd Duke of Suffolk
born 27 September 1442, died 29 October 1491/27 October 1492
married (1) ca.28 January 1449, Divorced ca.1452
Lady Margaret Beaufort, daughter of John Beaufort, 1st Duke
of Somerset and Margaret Beauchamp
born 31 May 1443 Bletso, Herts., died 29 June 1509 Westminster
married (2) October 1460
Elizabeth of York, daughter of Richard, 3rd Duke of York,
and Cicely Nevill
born 22 April 1444 Rouen, died circa January 1503
children, Generation IV-2

1.Aimeric de Durfort
died between 1453 and 1476

2.Jean de Durfort, Seigneur de Duras
died 12 April 1520
married (1) contract 13 December 1478
Jeanne Angevin, daughter of Bernard Angevin, Seigneur de Rauzan
and Marguerite de Montferrand
died between 4 November 1502 and 25 June 1504
married (2) contract 9 May 1513
Catherine de Foix, daughter of Corbeyran de Foix and Jeanne
de Le Roque
died after 1522

3.Georges de Durfort, Seigneur de Tilh, de Tirou, de Bussac
died March 1525
married 1518 Jacquette du Puy du Fou

4.Marguerite de Durfort
mentioned 1476 and 1481
married 9 February 1481 Jean de Saint-Gelais, Seigneur de
Mauleon et de Saint-Aulaye
1.John de La Pole, Earl of Lincoln
born 1462, died in battle 16 June 1487 Stoke
married Lady Margaret Fitzalan, daughter of Thomas Fitzalan,
16th Earl of Arundel and Margaret Widville
died after 1528
2.Edward de La Pole, Archdeacon of Richmond
died before 8 October 1485

3.Edmund de La Pole, 3rd Duke of Suffolk
born circa 1471, beheaded 4 May 1513 Tower Hill
married before 10 October 1496
Margaret Scrope, daughter of Sir Richard Scrope, of Bentley
and Eleanor Washbourn
died February 1515
child : Lady Elizabth de La Pole

4.Humphrey de La Pole
born 1 August 1474, died before 15 February 1513

5.William de La Pole
born circa 1478, died before 20 November 1539 Tower of London
married circa 1497 Catherine Stourton, daughter of William
Stourton, 2nd Lord Stourton, and Margaret Chidiock
died 25 November 1521 London

6.Geoffrey de La Pole

7.Richard de La Pole
died 24 February 1525 Pavia (killed)

8.Lady Catherine de La Pole
married William Stourton, 5th Lord Stourton, son of William
Stourton, 2nd Lord Stourton, and Margaret Chidiock
died 17 February 1524

9.Lady Anne de La Pole

10.Lady Dorothy de La Pole

11.Lady Elizabeth de La Pole
married Henry Lovel, 8th Lord Morley, son of William Lovel
and Eleonore, 7th Baroness Morley
born circa 1466, died in battle 13 June 1489 Dixmude

Sources :
The Complete Peerage

Cahiers de Saint Louis

Europaischen Stammtafeln (Schwennicke)

Amongst the above descendants only two, Jean de Durfort and his
sister Marguerite de Durfort, have produced descendants to the
present and amongst these we can find :

Dr. Otto von Habsburg, b.1912
Jean, Grand Duke of Luxemburg, b.1921
Rainier III, Prince of Monaco, b.1923
Charles Hugues, Duke of Parma, b.1930
Francois de Rochechouart, 15.Duc de Mortemart, b.1930
Franz, Duke of Bavaria, b.1933
Albert II, King of Belgium, b.1934
Anton, 13th Furst Esterhazy de Galantha, b.1936
Prince Vittorio Emanuele de Savoie, b.1937
Simeon II, King of Bulgaria, b.1937
Henri Jacques de Caumont, 14.Duc de la Force, b.1944
Hans Adam II, Furst von und zu Liechtenstein, b.1945
Princess Michael of Kent, b.1945
Duarte, Duke of Braganca, b.1945
Albert, 12th Furst von Thurn und Taxis, b.1983

So this all looks very nice ! BUT:

Leo van der Pas corrects himself later:

"Many years ago I made this momentous discovery. Geoffrey Chaucer was an ancestor of a member of the British Royal Family!!! I made a chart showing this link and sent it to the Society of Genealogists in London. I received a very kind note from Mr. Anthony Camp saying "Sorry you are wrong!! There is one link that doesn't work and I will send you an article by Sir Iain Moncreiffe of that Ilk which says so." I received the article but the way how it reads to me is that he supports the link, says so and quotes Pere Anselme as his source. Then I found that ES also shows this link. And so I felt vindicated, this link works and Geoffrey Chaucer has many descendants today.

I even sent a file to Brigitte Gastel Lloyd for her to put on her website. But now, in comes Brad Verity asking awkward questions (thank goodness)!! He tested the waters and even found the proper Pere Anselme entry. What did he say? Anne was a daughter of the Duke of Suffolk, nothing more, nothing about the mother. There are no contemporary sources which give more than one child to Alice Chaucer, the wife of that Duke. To do the right thing, I have disconnected in my data base the connection but not as yet on my website, as I must accept that Alice Chaucer had only one child, never mind how many children her husband has fathered.

And so, no present day descendants for Geoffrey Chaucer........this is what I told Brad Verity who then said that one of the de La Pole's had an illegitimate child with descendants to the present. That link is not as yet rock solid but is good enough to be accepted. I looked and I already had that illegitimate child recorded. What is more, that lines goes to a gateway ancestor for Canada!! And so most likely there are descendants till today for Geoffrey Chaucer, and I would love to know more about them. "

I'm thinking nope, nothing, nada, nothing proved.

Private User
10/1/2015 at 11:33 AM

I've been having fun trying to trace the descendants of Sir Thomas Malory of Newbold Revel. His direct line daughtered out in the third generation, which makes it harder. But one or two of his great-great-granddaughters seem to have kept things going (haven't found a confirmed link to America yet, but am hopeful).

No, neither Captain Roger Mallory of Virginia nor Peter Mallory of New Haven were known descendants (we don't even know Peter's *ancestors*). And they weren't related to each other in the male line at all. (Roger's male descendants are I1 - Peter's are R1b.)

For what it's worth, I1 appears to pertain to the main Leicestershire and Yorkshire Mallory lines, and suggests that they may indeed trace back to the Norman Conquest. R1b is very very common in the "Celtic fringes" (Scotland, Ireland, Wales) and quite common everywhere else too. It has never been possible to connect Malory of Draughton/Newbold solidly to the Leicestershire line, and before Sir Thomas was explicitly identified, some scholars thought he must have been Welsh (*he* wasn't, but the jury is out on his distant ancestors).

Private User
10/1/2015 at 1:54 PM

Getting back to Robert Russell of Andover, I think we can safely disconnect him. There is no primary *or* secondary documentation for him as grandson of Sir Thomas Russell, no evidence that Sir Thomas Russell had a son Robert (let alone a grandson Robert), *and* a consistent tradition that Robert arrived in Andover from Scotland(!).

10/1/2015 at 2:57 PM

Amy Nordahl Cote
Thank you, sooo much, for that reflection and the links, on the Bass(e) Lineages, connected to my own branches! 😍 Fascinating (when also, mind boggling!)
I will definitely, check out the links you've provided! Even though, I am doubtful if I/we/they will ever locate documentation, for those so wi(l)dely researched and investigated. But we do always have the genes to analyze!
Anyone on 23&me, may connect with my profile there under: Theresa Renée Delgado-Tossas /nickname: TRDelTos

xoxoxoTheresa Renée

10/1/2015 at 4:20 PM

This looks wrong

From Rev. John Rogers, of Dedham, Essex

His parents were John Rogers (died 1601), a shoemaker from Moulsham in Essex, and his wife, Mary (died 1579). Richard Rogers, his uncle, provided for his education at Emmanuel College, Cambridge, where he seems to have graduated in 1591/2.[1] In 1592 he became vicar of Honingham, Norfolk, and in 1603 he succeeded Lawrence Fairclough, father of Samuel Fairclough, as vicar of Haverhill, Suffolk.[2]


But his Geni father is no shoemaker ...

John Rogers, Proctor of Civil Law


And his Geni daughter is from Shropshire, not Essex ....

Elizabeth Wheelock


Shall i perform surgery?

10/1/2015 at 10:01 PM

Erica Howton

I would, if I had absolute certainty. Possibly, the addition of your findings, to the discussion Thread(Link to which, was in the comment to you, here on this Thread, too.), posted by the Curator of Rev. John "the Martyr" Rogers, about same: Charlene, will ease, the surgical procedure for you, as well as, the recovery? 😊😘💘

10/1/2015 at 10:22 PM

I have researched the family of Rev. John Rogers "the Martyr" of Deritend, Birmingham but I'm not familiar with the family of Rev. John Rogers, of Dedham, Essex. I'll leave that one for Erica.

10/3/2015 at 10:58 AM

Erica Howton
Looking at the line more closely, Seeing that the lawyer father was born in germany, he may have been trained a shoemaker, there, before matriculating in England. (?) shoemaker was a popular profession in Germany, back in the day. Certain, I am not.

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