Elizabeth Howland (unknown) - Discussion for Richard b. 1443 and Elizabeth Howland John 1 b 1481

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4524514.Steven_Wood_Collins/b...

Here is a cool link from goodreads.com steven wood collins

https://archive.org/stream/southworthwithco00barn/southworthwithco0...

ctrl f type howland talks about John of the Mayflower

Steven Wood has the Holland of Up Holland genealogy for the Howlands -- and I think that's wrong, and where the "wrong" on Geni is coming from.

your link:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4524514.Steven_Wood_Collins/b...

Sir Thomas de Holland

Sir Thomas de Holland, 1st Earl of Kent, 2nd Baron Holand, KG (1314 - 1360)
is Steven Wood Collins’ 2nd cousin 21x removed
Sir Robert De Holand (1285 - 1328)
Father of Sir Thomas
Sir Robert "1st Baron of Holland" de Hollande/Holand (1253 - 1304)
Father of Sir Robert
Sir Thurston "Knight" "Baron of Holand" de Hollande/Holand (1222 - 1275)
Father of Sir Robert "1st Baron of Holland"
Sir William of Bolton, Lancashire de Hollande/Holand (1275 - 1318)
Son of Sir Thurston "Knight" "Baron of Holand"
Sir Thurstan of Up Holland, Lancashire de Hollande/Holand (1292 - 1368)
Son of Sir William of Bolton, Lancashire
Richard Sir of Prestwich, Lanc. Holland (1327 - 1402)
Son of Sir Thurstan of Up Holland, Lancashire
Thurstan/Thurston de Hollande/Holand I (1359 - 1423)
Son of Richard Sir of Prestwich, Lanc.
Thurston Holand (1390 - 1467)
Son of Thurstan/Thurston
Richard De Holland (1420 - 1483)
Son of Thurston
Richard Howland (1456 - 1501)
Son of Richard
John Howland (1481 - 1550)
Son of Richard
JOHN HOWLAND (1515 - 1611)
Son of John
HENRY HOWLAND (1564 - 1635)
Son of JOHN
Arthur Howland (1610 - 1675)
Son of HENRY

=====

It's this linkage we need to investigate:

Richard De Holland (1420 - 1483) Son of Thurston
Richard Howland (1456 - 1501) Son of Richard

tagging also

David Lee Kaleita
John Albert Rigali, preparing for hiatus
Private User

Did Isabella Holland marry a HOLLAND or a HOWLAND?

.... a Wikitree researcher suspects they were different based on geography ....

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/39199/connection-between-richard-hollan...

I note in several ancestry.com and mundi family trees the attribution that Richard Holland (b.1450) of Denton, Lancs. and Isabella Harrington (b.1450) were the parents of John Howland (b.1481). This concerns me, as the couple and their antecedents lived in Denton Lancashire, whereas John Howland and his descendents live in Newport Pond, Essex. Further, the attributed date of death of Isabella is 1480, whereas John Howland's attributed birth is 1481. Further still, the wikitree site suggestes the sole child of Richard and Isabella was Margaret Hyde. Question: Is the association of John 1481 Howland of Essex to Richard and Isabella in appropriate?

Answer:

The 15th century was not known for a lot of travel (apart from men going off to wars/crusades) the usual distance that a couple would move is within 30 miles (roughly a day's walk/ride). I would tend to disregard the associafion, The alteration of Holland to Howland is semi-plausible as phonetically there is a chance of the one being mistaken for the other. Fifteenth century records were made by semi-literate prists for illiterate people so they couldn't say "Is that how you spell your surname?" as the person who is having the record made could not tell.

i might agree well think its where it came from anyways i just dont know how name changing works but i did look up richard holland senior and had track how i was related and it took the path of the websters not youngs although the websters married a young for some reason i thought this john we were looking at was going to be the mayflower passenger so ive been looking him up and just noticed this one is way before the pilgrim

looks sourced by "one World Tree" -- stitched together based on vote.

Person
Richard Holand
Born: 1443 Denton, Lancashire, England
Died: 1501 England
OneWorldTree Choice OneWorldTree® choice - (Our "recommendation" for the most accurate piece of information.)

Here's an example

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dhdodd/DoddFamily...

https://books.google.com/books?id=90FVAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=...

yeah i see looked way different to if i had it track from richard holland because if it would had been right you think it would had went this direction it didnt so im still related to richard holland just believe this is the longer route could be wrong i didnt even know we got this far so im catching up just added the line up to get here i was still on henry howland jr so been trying to catch up

if we are not gonna count denton for being to far we might want to start with john and work our way up again as this shows the richard attached being from denton might also be easier sorry for writing here just taking notes while trying to ask opinions im no expert and this and all i got is google to look for info

http://www.jbdaedal.com/shannon/3/856.htm

Yes, I like your source. I think this might be documentable and would be the tree top:

Born during the early reign of Henry VIII, John Howland and Anne Greenway had eleven sons and one daughter and all historians agree that all Howlands in England were desc, from this pair. The eldest son , Richard Howland, Doctor of Divinity and Archbishop of Peterborough, was granted the Family Coat of Arms June 10, 1584. Historians say he delivered the funeral sermon of Mary Queen of Scots.

John's will was proven April 1550.

The name Howland is found only in Essex England and was originally found only in Newport, Wicken, Essex, England.

Both George and Humphrey Howland died before 1653, as Humphrey's widow Annie was executrix of both their wills. She died December 20, 1653. Humphrey was a draper of London.George lived at St. Donstons, East London.

some sources call john lord howland

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Howland,+Peterborough+PE2+5QY,+UK...

how sad not exactly how id picture it when you look at governor st in hartford co i think or was it mass has so many awesome buildings

Nice link with Holland info. Doesn't turn into Howland.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dav4is/ODTs/HOLLA...