Eleanor West (de Percy), Lady - Husband & parents

Correction
There is a dau. Eleanor for Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland and Eleanor Percy, Countess of Northumberland but the reference states she did not marry Reginald, Lord de la Warre

http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1532.htm#...

If I merged something, go ahead and undo it. I didn't mean to interfere with anything. Am learning about genealogy and am unfamiliar with who married who. Am learning how to be on Geni without matching things when it pops up on my screen.

I would not rely on http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com this is a very poor source.

That website does cite it sources and this is what The Complete Peerage Vol. IV, p. 155, notes says:

In the pedigree of Percy, by Bishop Percy (Collins, edit. 1779, vol. ii, p. 373), it is stated that Eleanor, Ist da. of Henry, Earl of Northumberland, is mentioned in her father's will dated 1 Nov. 36 Hen. VI [1457/8], as unmarried, and that she afterwards m. Reynold West, Lord la Warre. This, and Bore's statement (Rutland, p. 100) that the same Eleanor was wife of Richard, Lord la Warre, are both obviously erroneous.

https://archive.org/stream/completepeerageo04coka#page/154/mode/2up

I'll see if I can find a transcript of Henry, Earl of Northumberland's will.

Do not rely on wikipedia either as there is a mix up with Eleanor daughter of the 3rd Earl and Eleanor daughter of the 4th Earl

The 2nd Earl of Northumberland did not have a daughter named Eleanor

The 3rd Earl did have a daughter named Eleanor - she is mentioned in his will as unmarried in 1458. She is the one that is incorrectly recorded as having married Reynold West, Lord la Warre and Richard, Lord la Warre

The 4th Earl did have a daughter named Eleanor - she married Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham and has her own wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Percy,_Duchess_of_Buckingham

hi charlene:

thank you for this work...i'm also related to the 'wests' as well in different way...nice to have things clearer/cleaner...

sincerely,

tony

http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1532.htm#... so far was the only reference that listed a dau. Eleanor for Henry Percy, 2nd Earl & Eleanor (Neville).

The source The Complete Peerage Vol. IV, p. 155 and The Complete Peerage lists the source as a pedigree of Percy in Collins, edit. 1779, vol. ii, p. 373.

I only have access to Collins's Peerage of England; .... in Nine Volumes 1812 (is this an updated version?). in Vol. II is the section Percy, Duke of Northumberland.
https://archive.org/stream/collinsspeerage_02coll#page/279/mode/1up
There are only Joan/Johanne, Katherine, & Anne listed as the dau. of Eleanor (Neville) & Henry Percy, 2nd Earl

https://archive.org/stream/collinsspeerage_02coll#page/296/mode/1up
Which lists Henry Percy 3rd Earl & wife Eleanor Poynings as having a dau. Eleanor who m. Reginald West, Lord Delawar. In other references it lists her with Thomas West who is grandson to Margaret (Thorley) & Reginald West. Could they have confused Thomas for Reginald?

That website http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com has mixed up the 2nd Earl with the 3rd Earl.

I only have access to Collins's Peerage of England 1812 edition too. That edition does not mention a daughter Eleanor for the 2nd Earl.

The Complete Peerage Vol. IV, p. 155 is clearly talking about the 3rd Earl. He did have a daughter named Eleanor. Who she married is still uncertain. It could be Thomas West. I will do some more digging.

Abstract of the will of the 3rd Earl of Northumberland:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=yale.39002005727525;view=2up;...

Mentions unmarried daughters Eleanor, Margaret, Elizabeth and son Henry Percy.

Charlene Newport
How so is there a mix up of the 2nd Earl with the 3rd Earl on Our Royal, Titled, Noble .... ? They seem consistent with other references.

The Wiki page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Percy,_3rd_Earl_of_Northumberland has a error for the dau. Eleanor listing her as wife of Edward Stafford, her page lists her parents as Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland by his wife, Lady Maud Herbert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Percy,_Duchess_of_Buckingham

Thank you for the link of the abstract. Too bad it does not have one for the 2nd Earl. It does list on page 541 that Henry Percy Earl of Northumberland died 1455 had a son Henry whose wife was Maud.

This is confusing as other references say Henry Percy who died in 1461 husband of Eleanor Poynings was father of the Henry Percy who married Maud Herbert.

Carole, as far as I can tell http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1532.htm#... is the only source which says that the 2nd Earl had a daughter named Eleanor. Have you found other sources?

The source citation given for that proof (The Complete Peerage Vol. IV, p. 155) is actually for the 3rd Earl not the 2nd Earl. It's clearly for the 3rd Earl because of the date of the will 1 Nov. 36 Hen. VI [1457/8]. The 2nd Earl died in 1455.

Unfortunately I haven't found a will for the 2nd Earl.

I'll come back to this in a day or two as I'm busy with family etc today & tomorrow.

Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy,Vol. Curator I'm back looking into this again. I think you were correct in your very first post. Eleanor dau. of Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland married Thomas, 8th Baron De La Warr, 5th Baron West.

In the visitation of Yorkshire 1563 and 1564 "Elenor Lady La Ware" is recorded as a daughter of Henry Percy, third Earl of Northumberland.

http://archive.org/stream/visitationofyork00flow#page/242/mode/2up

Eleanor seems to have married Thomas West, 8th Baron De La Warr (c.1457 – 11 October 1525), by whom she had no issue.

The evidence for this is summarised at:
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/delawarr.shtml

A pedigree of the Percy family, apparently compiled in the 1480s, shows Eleanor, a daughter of Henry Percy [d. 1461], having married a Lord de la Warr ("domino de la Ware") [Surtees Society, vol. 144, pp. 19-20 (1930), from MS Ashmole 831]. Previous proposals that her husband was Thomas's father or grandfather are mentioned by the Complete Peerage (p.155, note c), which refers to a statement that Eleanor was mentioned in her father's will, dated 1 November 36 Henry VI [1457], as unmarried [citing Collins Peerage, vol.2, p.373 (1779 edn)]. It is pointed out that these identifications are clearly wrong, as Thomas's grandfather [Reginald West] was dead before that date, and his father [Richard West] was already married to the wife who survived him.

Therefore, unless the Percy pedigree is mistaken, Thomas must have been married to Eleanor Percy before, by around 1480, marrying Elizabeth Mortimer. (However, note that in his will Thomas provides for prayers for the soul of Elizabeth and for the soul of his living wife Eleanor [daughter of Roger Copley], but makes no mention of any other wife [PCC 2 Porche; PRO PROB11/22, fo.11].)

I have found a transcript of the will of Henry Percy 4th Earl of Northumberland.

It list the following children:

dau. Alianor (unmarried)

son William

son Henry (his heir apparent)

son Aleyne [Alan]

dau. Anne (unmarried)

son Gessylyne [Josceline]
https://archive.org/stream/collectaneatopog02madd#page/64/mode/2up

I still haven't found a will for Henry Percy 2nd Earl of Northumberland though.

The visitation of Yorkshire 1563 and 1564 lists the following children for the 2nd Earl

Daughters:

Jane Percy

Ann Lady Clyfford
Kateren Countess of Carycke [Kent]

Sons:

John dyed young

William Boshop of Carlell

Sir Rychard Percy, Knight

George Percy, a Parson

Raff Percy, Knight

Thomas Percy, Lord Egermont

Henry Percy, son & heyr

http://archive.org/stream/visitationofyork00flow#page/242/mode/2up

Lady Eleanor West is listed with a birth date of 1415 & death date September 1, 1452, if these are correct then she would not be the wife of Thomas West, 5th Baron of West of Oakhanger / 8th Baron of De La Warr & she would not be the dau. of Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland and Eleanor Percy, Baroness de Poynings

She has the same death date as Elizabeth Greydnour, Countess of Worcester wife of Sir Reynold West, 6th Baron La Warr & John Tiptoft, Earl of Worcester, but not the same location.

This is my suggestion

Remove the dates for
Lady Eleanor West detach her from the 2nd Earl

and merge her with
Lady Eleanor West daughter of the 3rd Earl

Sounds like a good plan. I will wait a few days to see if any one else has an opinion.
Kris Hewitt is Curator so she should have a say in what to do.

I have no problem with Charlene's suggestion...

Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy,Vol. Curator & Kris Hewitt I have done the merge.

Thank you Charlene Newport

Good information, all of you. This is what I have on my tree-- this Eleanor Poynings married Henry Percy 3rd Earl-- source if findagrave:
Eleanor Percy, Countess of Northumberland,

I am contacting you about this profile: https://www.geni.com/people/Eleanor-Percy-Countess-of-Northumberlan...

Hello, I see this information about Eleanor Poynings on find a grave and it gives different parents...which source is accurate?

Birth: 1422
Gloucestershire, England
Death: Feb. 11, 1484
County Durham, England

Spelling of names:
"Alianor Poynings", "Eleanor Poynings", "Eleanor/ De/ Poynings", "Elizabeth Poynings"

Parents: daughter of Sir Richard de Poynings

Source: Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists by David Faris, p. 244. (Conflict with mother's name here.)

"Heir general in 1446 to her grandfather, Robert Poynings, Knt., 4th Lord Poynings....She was legatee in the 1455 will of her mother, Eleanor, Countess of Arundel."

Source: Plantagenet Ancestry by Douglas Richardson, p. 579 & 594.

"Sir Henry de Percy, KNT, b. 25 July 1421, slain at Towton Field, 29Mar. 1461, 3rd Earl of Northumberland; m. on or about 25 June 1435, Eleanor Poynings, d. Feb. 1483/4, dau. of Richard Poynings, Lord Poynings."
Source: Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 by Frederick Lewis Weis, Th.D. 4th Edition, p. 55.

Family links:
Parents:
Richard de Poynings (1400 - 1429)
Eleanor Berkeley Fitzalan (____ - 1455)

Spouse:
Henry Percy (1421 - 1461)

Children:
Elizabeth Percy Scrope (____ - 1512)*
Margaret Percy Gascoigne (1447 - 1487)*
Henry de Percy (1449 - 1489)*

Sibling:
William Fitzalan (1417 - 1487)**
Eleanor Poynings Percy (1422 - 1484)

*Calculated relationship
**Half-sibling

Sincerely,

Keli Rae McMillen

Eleanor Percy, Countess of Northumberland

I think you are getting confused with Eleanor Neville, Countess of Northumberland wife of Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland and Eleanor (Eleanor) Percy, Baroness Poynings wife of Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland

Eleanor Poynings has the same parents on geni & findagrave.

Charlene, I concur with your 9/17/16 comment and for this recent verification of the Eleanor's marrying Henry's:-) Also note that Eleanor Poynings mother was Eleanor Berkeley m. Richard Poynings Sr.

Where I went awry is with geni.com's auto-matching--- they matched the wrong parents to Eleanor Poynings. Sometimes the computer-generated matches are right, sometimes wrong..in this case, wrong. Always great to clarify about the 2-4 Eleanor's and 2 Henry's... Thank you.- Keli

To confuse us further, Henry Percy III was married to Eleanor Poynings while his mother was Eleanor de Neville m. Henry Percy II.

Eleanor Neville, Countess of Northumberland MP
Place of Burial: Saint George's, Trotton, Sussex, England
Birth: circa 1397
Raby, Durham, England
Death: 1472 (75)
Alnwick, Northumberland, , England
Immediate Family:
Daughter of Ralph de Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland and Joan Plantagenet Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland
Wife of Sir Richard le Despenser and Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland
Mother of Joan Percy, Nun; John Percy; Eleanor West, Lady; Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland; Thomas Percy, 1st Baron Egremont and 9 others; Catherine Grey, Countess of Kent; George De Percy, Triplet; Sir Ralph Percy, Governor of Bamburgh Castle; Richard Percy, Knight; William de Percy, Bishop Of Carlyle; Elizabeth de Percy; Anne Percy; Henry Percy and Beverly de Percy « less
Sister of Katherine Neville, Duchess of Norfolk; Richard Neville, 5th Earl of Salisbury; George Neville, 1st Baron Latimer; Cuthbert de Neville; Baron Thomas de Neville, and 8 others; Edward Neville, 3rd Baron of Bergavenny; Robert Neville, Bishop of Salisbury and Durham; William Neville, 1st Earl of Kent; Anne Neville, Duchess of Buckingham; John (the younger) Neville; Cecily Neville, Duchess of York; Henry de Neville and Joan Neville the nun « less
Half sister of Margaret Neville, Baroness Scrope of Bolton; Cecily Neville, Duchess of York; Matilda (Maud) de Neville; Lady Alice de Neville; Anne "the Elder" de Neville and 7 others; Philippa de Neville, Baroness Dacre; John de Neville, Lord Neville; Elizabeth de Neville; Sir Ralph Neville; Anastasia de Neville; Elizabeth Ferrers and Mary de FerrersEleanor Neville, Countess of Northumberland
Born Abt 1399 of Raby-Keverstone, Staindrop, Durham, England
Died 1440 , , , England
Age ~ 41 years
Person ID I5328 Full Tree | Larson
Father Ralph I de Neville, Earl of Westmorland, b. 1364, of Castle Raby, Raby-Keverstone, Durham, England d. 21 Oct 1425, Raby-Keverstone Castle, Staindrop, Durham, England – Age: 61 years
Mother Joan de Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland, b. Abt 1375, , Château Beaufort, Meurthe-et-Moselle, France d. 13 Nov 1440, Howden, East Riding, Yorkshire, England Age: ~ 65 years
Married 29 Nov 1396 , Château Beaufort, Meurthe-et-Moselle, France
Family ID F2890 Group Sheet
Family 1 Earl Henry VII de d. 22 May 1455, Battlefield, St. Albans, Hertford, England Age: 61 years
Married Aft 7 Oct 1414 , Berwick, Wiltshire, England
Children
1. Henry Percy, b. Abt 1416, of Warkworth, Marston St. Lawrence, Northumberland, England d. Bef 1421 – Age: ~ 5 years
2. Joan Percy, b. Abt 1417, of Warkworth, Marston St. Lawrence, Northumberland, England bur. Whitby, North Riding, Yorkshire, England
3. John Percy, (Older), b. 8 Jul 1418, Warkworth, Marston St. Lawrence, Northampton, England d. Infant, Warkworth, Marston St. Lawrence, Northampton, England
4. John Percy, (Younger), b. Abt 1420, of Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. of Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England
> 5. Henry VIII Percy, Earl of Percy, b. 25 Jul 1421, Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. 29 Mar 1461, Towton Battlefield, Ferry Bridge, Ferry Frystone, West Riding, Yorkshire, England Age: 39 years
6. Sir. Thomas Percy, Baron, b. 29 Nov 1422, Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. 29 Mar 1461, Battlefield, Northampton, Northamptonshire, England Age: 38 years
> 7. Catherine Percy, Countess of Kent, b. 28 May 1423, Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. Aft 1475, , , , England Age: 52 years
8. George Percy, Parson, b. 24 Jul 1424, Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. Nov 1474, , , , England Age: 50 years
9. Richard Percy, b. 1425, Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. 29 Mar 1461, , , , England Age: 36 years
> 10. Sir. Ralph I Percy, Knight, b. 11 Aug 1425, Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. 25 Apr 1496, Hedgeley, Eglingham, Northumberland, England Age: 70 years
11. Elizabeth Percy, b. Abt 1426, , Alnwick, Northumberland, England
12. William Percy, Bishop of Carlyle, b. 7 Apr 1428, Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England d. 1462, , , , England Age: 33 years
Last Modified 17 Aug 2010
Family ID F2405 Group Sheet
Family 2 Sir. Richard le Despencer, Baron, b. Abt 1397, , Elmley Castle, Worcester, England d. 7 Oct 1414, , Merton, Surrey, England Age: ~ 17 years
Married Aft 23 May 1412 of Raby-Keverstone Castle, Staindrop, Durham, England
* Richard was a Child Groom at age 13, died at 15
Eleanor was a Child Bride at age 13, widowed at 15
Last Modified 17 Aug 2010
Family ID F2926 Group Sheet Sir. Ralph I Percy, Knight
Born 11 Aug 1425 Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England
Died 25 Apr 1496 Hedgeley, Eglingham, Northumberland, England
Age 70 years
Person ID I16764 Full Tree | Larson
Father Earl Henry VII de Percy, b. 3 Feb 1394, , Alnwick, Northumberland, England d. 22 May 1455, Battlefield, St. Albans, Hertford, England Age: 61 years
Mother Eleanor Neville, Countess of Northumberland, b. Abt 1399, of Raby-Keverstone, Staindrop, Durham, England d. 1440, , , , England Age: ~ 41 years
Married Aft 7 Oct 1414 , Berwick, Wiltshire, England
Family ID F2405 Group Sheet
Family 1 Jane Teye, b. Abt 1452, , Bursted, Essex, England
Married Abt 1494 of Pearce Hall, West Riding, Yorkshire, England
Children
> 1. Richard Percy, Sr., b. 1496, Pearce Hall, West Riding, Yorkshire, England d. Pearce Hall, West Riding, Yorkshire, England
Last Modified 17 Aug 2010
Family ID F7589 Group Sheet
Family 2 Eleanor Acton, b. Abt 1429, Acton Twp., Felton, Northumberland, England
Married Abt 1448 of Leckonfield, East Riding, Yorkshire, England
Children
1. Ralph Percy, Jr., b. Abt 1451, Acton Twp., Felton, Northumberland, England
2. George Percy, b. Abt 1453, Acton Twp., Felton, Northumberland, England d. Abt 1500 – Age: ~ 47 years
3. John Percy, b. Abt 1455, , Bambrough, Northumberland, England
> 4. Margaret Percy, b. Abt 1462, , Bambrough, Northumberland, England d. Aft 1506 – Age: ~ 45 years
Last Modified 17 Aug 2010
Family ID F7590 Group Sheet

C.P.R. 1441–1446 (1908): 33 (Henry Percy, Knt. styled “king's kinsman”). ... ELEANOR PERCY, married THOMAS WEST, K.G., 8th Lord laWarre, 5th Lord West. Her parents are Knight Henry Percy & Eleanort Poynings.

Eleanor Percy... Her brother is also Henry; 4th of Northumberland, 7th Lord Percy. Her sister is Margaret, who married William Glascoigne, Knight of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire. They are the children of Knight Henry Percy & Eleanor Poynings... according to page 14 of Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, 2nd Edition

Out of many Eleanor Nevilles, is there one who was married to Lord John Locke? she's on my tree as such and I also found her as married to same on Geni on the Preston tree. I'm trying to place her somewhere with the Locke family, I realize a Eleanor Neville was married to Henry Percy, trying to clean up my tree on ancestry.com. I have been challenged about being related to Joan , Beaufort through her, as my 16th great grandmother.

Do you have profile links on Geni you could post ?