Turning V.I.P. profiles into projects

Interesting idea. But I don't completely understand. How do you turn a profile into a project?
For eg: I've got a profile for Nelson Mandela: President Rolihlahla Nelson Mandela, Nobel Laureate
And a separate project for him: http://www.geni.com/projects/Nelson-Mandela-s-Long-Walk-to-Freedom-...

You are totally correct. Your project is a good example of it.
There is another project about Gandhi which is another good example of it as well.

Instead of a lot of people individual related to for instance a famous person, they could meet up and share there experiences via the project discussions of the related project.

What I am aiming for as well is to stimulate more of the social network experience here on geni. Meet up with people with a share in interests. Interested in Mandela or Gandhi.

So my intent is to set up a Geni's VIP Plaza, where your project defenitely should be part of.

It will be a good place to shop around for those VIP projects, which will become social portals of their own then when you visit them.

If you own such a project, try hosting a discussion on it, where you invite followers and collaborators to share their experiences related to the VIP.

Here is the Gandhi project:

https://www.geni.com/projects/The-Gandhi-Project/357

Dimitri,

Could you answer the question of Sharon on how to turn an existing project into a V.I.P. project?
Also nice to know how to start a V.I.P. project when there is not yet a project related to a profile?

Okay, so you want to link projects on important people (not their profiles) to this project?

I was just wondering what is new about this?

Like you said there could be multiple projects about the same V.I.P.. (like Gandi). I suppose they would all link to the concerning profile. They could link to each other under the related project heading.
But that is not really turning a profile into a project, so what exactly are you proposing?

This V.I.P. project concept is refreshing, Dimitri. Thanks for presenting it to the Geni community. The famous, the infamous, and the “beautiful people”, past and present, attract our attention, of course. But, equally vibrant, are the lives of many who are not notables. I happen to love hearing the stories of those who have traveled rather unique paths in life, and their stories are worthy of being told, too. For example, that of László Weiss, the subject of your project, subtitled, The Loose Ends.
http://www.geni.com/projects/László-Weiss-The-loose-ends/17690

...Or that of artist Edith Lake Wilkinson, whose profile was recently added to Geni.
Edith Lake Wilkinson

There must be tens of thousands of little known profiles, just as extraordinary. They should to be told, because there is indeed an audience.

In most cases, the bio page on profiles should suffice. We don't need a project to, for example, list all the children and grandchildren of MLK. Something also to keep in mind is Geni is not Wikipedia, so we should focus on the genealogy of a person, not their biographical history.

* http://www.geni.com/projects/a-tribute-to-Caterina/7360
* http://www.geni.com/projects/a-tribute-to-Audrey/4968

See for other 'tributes' the search-engine in de project-status and use the terme's 'A tribute to ...'

* http://www.geni.com/projects/Het-OEUVRE-van…-Hella-HAASSE-%E2%80%A7...
* http://www.geni.com/projects/Het-OEUVRE-van…-BERNLEF-%E2%80%A7-1937...

See for other examples the search-engine in de project-status and use the words 'Het OEUVRE van '

I'm not really getting the point of having both a profile and a project. Is the idea that having projects will generate discussion that is not specifically genealogical? Do we expect a lot of that kind of discussion? Hard to predict what other people will do, but I don't see myself saying "Ooo, I love MLK" more than once ;)

Apparently one cannot go and have a nice dinner and come back and relax a little bit behind his desktop LOL!!!

Thank you so much for the response this subject apparently brings up allready!

They are two ways of thinking. One says, we already having VIP projects. So what's the new twist to it than?

Another thought could be, let's keep Geni exclusive for subjects concerning genealogy and above all, let's not chat about it. We lot, loves to debate with each other in proper discussions.

And there is a third, which is that Geni is all about collaboration too. Getting to know each other a bit better because we meet each other here and there in projects or discussions so every once in a while.

My thought is trying to gather people around in what I call Plaza's. You can call them portals for all I care, but they do not work the same.
It is actually a square where people meet up, work together, assist each other, share there thoughts, all this because of the mutual interest, depending on the Plaza theme.

Now let me go back to the subject of this discussion, and try to answser most of your questions.

There are famous people/profiles which Geni users love to discover that they are related to. The enthusiasm of these discoveries can be of course shared among friends on FB for example.

And why is it that this can't be shared with the same people, with the same interest who love these same discoveries here on Geni?

Why not create an opportunity to let these users meet up via a VIP project where people are able to share their thoughts, new found facts on the VIP etc. be a fan, connect, make friends, suggest and collaborate on new projects and so on.

How? Simply instigate a discussion as the project manager of the VIP project, where you introduce the discussion area like a forum of such.

That's it basically.

Project managers of allready existing VIP projects can easily insert this format by starting this discussion/ forum and host it.

New VIP projects, which can also easily be about someone close in your family. I do not see the difference in that between famous or infamous.
I know of some, that they love those tiny individual stories that speaks so much to our imaginations.

Last thing I can say is that the difference between a single profile and a project that the profile, when shared is rather absord in project/projects.
Profiles turning into projects get more of the attention they deserve possibly and can become a spot where you can meet new friends, collegues, collaborators as well.

It’s not about preference here, they both should excist next to each other, and strengthen there genealogical geographical point on the BIG Geni World Tree map.

So..who told me 15 minutes ago I definetely should shut up now ?!!! LOL
Your turn then :)

Edith Lake Wilkinson should definitely become a VIP Project
Edith Lake Wilkinson

and 'a tribute to Audrey' too
http://www.geni.com/projects/a-tribute-to-Audrey/4968

Two perfect examples of the Famous and infamous!

Thank you Loretta Alexandra, M268111 & Private User

I don't see any benefit to your idea that we can't already do with profiles themselves. And what a pity it would be if a profile has a well written project page and a garbled bio page.

Also, if your "plaza" projects are portals, I think you're creating a lot of duplicates of pre-existing portals.

Additionally, I'm very much against the "if you build it, they will come" method for project building. If you have a project idea, and you don't want to be the one to spearhead it, contact the people that work in those areas with your idea. Chances are, the have a project that could accommodate your idea. Also, your giving the people in that area ownership over it and incentive to continue it.

Hi Private User, much appreciated you share your point of view here! Thanx

"All being done, all being said", but not by me. Therefore I am not creating doubles.
I made a lot of Plaza's and had no complaints, that I was creating doubles.

I think that is simply because they are just a little bit different from what you are use to. That's all. No big changes, just a little bit different

And don't get me wrong. Show me a project similar like my idea of this social gatherings at a plaza. I am afraid those coffee corners don't do the trick for me. No offence to that concept of course.

My feeling is that Geni should be a place for all.
It is not called for nothing: The Big World Tree, where we are actually all family where everybody deserves his place.

One loves facts, quality and precision, accuracy,
others love to meet other people and share their mutual interests, and love to make beautiful plans, make projects, etc.

Dimitri Gazan, you haven't addressed any of my concerns though.

Projects for very famous profiles can be useful:
If the person is very famous and their profile is likely to be the subject of continual merges (& so endless messy additions to the About) - like Charlemagne, for example - then I find creating a project separate to their profile helps to keep a template with the main data clean: http://www.geni.com/projects/Charlemagne-Emperor-of-the-West/1550
You can create a template for their family line with hypertexted links to the other Geni profiles there, and it's far less likely to be accidentally (or deliberately) tampered with that way.

Ok Private User, I will give it another go :)

you say:

_don't see any benefit to your idea that we can't already do with profiles themselves. _

Profiles are like mini projects indeed. In that sense your suggestion fits, that an extra project, next to a profile is more of the same, let alone the differences in quality that might appear would not be preferable indeed.

But I should point out maybe more what the difference is between those two.

Let me try again:

A profile draws the attention of only user who happens to pass by at that specific moment in time, and will study this profile all by her/himself.

A one on one situation. No interaction there but adsorbing the information, no sharing.

Then you have the project which might share equal quantity, equal quality of information, but this time in a more open environment. Here you have the possibility to see how popular the profile is, who is contributing, who is following this profile for instance.

A project draws the attention of many all at once at the same time. Here there is the oppertunity to communicate, chat, discuss about the mutual interest in the VIP

You say:
_you're creating a lot of duplicates of pre-existing portals._

The difference between the Plaza’s and the portals is the accesability and content presentation of them.

Instead of big lists, links to other links, to other links, you are presented here with short descriptions, easy to read, easy to pick something you like which can bring you further to your goal, whatever that might be.

So the easyness, the easy accesability of information is key here. The public is not forced to be specific, to be specialised, to be precise in what thay are actually looking for. Maybe they are just browsing, just exploring a bit, just a bit surfing over the various Geni projects, who knows.

final part

you say:
_very much against the "if you build it, they will come" method for project building._

Believe me, I didn’t wait for anyones permission here to start these plaza’s and they turn out to be something that people are beginning to like. I do not share my project ideas for any kind of approval but for the sake of just sharing thoughts and even debate about them like we are doing now.

I am simply loving it! :)

If you still think I haven't answered all of your questions, don't be afraid to ask them again and again, just until you get what I mean, and I get what you mean, ok?

Interesting point there, Sharon Doubell

Why would a project get more people working on it than a profile? You can do nearly all what you can do in a project on a profiles, i.e. create a biography with links and attach discussions to the profile. If anything I argue the complete opposite, that the profiles get more attention than any project would. That's surely the case with big profiles like Charlemagne, even though a project is warranted for him, being the founder of a dynasty. Again, if a profile suffers because someone put more effort into a project, when the profile would completely suffice, would be a huge shame.

So all you're saying is your "plaza" projects are abridged versions of larger projects. Not to be a broken record, but what a shame it would be if people contributed to these abridged duplicate project, by joining and starting discussions, etc., instead of the original project. I just don't see any pros that out way the cons.

Your opinion noted and much appreciated, Private User
Clearly we have different points of view on this one.

Cool all the same :)

By the way, you are actually now involved in a discussion on one of the Plaza's... LOL (just joking)

I'm still not understanding the part about discussions. There are plenty of discussions on Geni and some of them go on for months. Usually they're about people telling how they're related to various royals. That's not a particular interest of mine, because it seems so obvious, but lots of people seem to enjoy those discussions and they serve a social purpose.

I don't see anything wrong about creating different avenues into the discussions but I'm also just not quite understanding the advantage. If I am interested in a person, I follow their profile and see the discussions about them. How is that different from following a project about them?

I have to agree with Victar and Justin, they have expressed my previously stated opinion far more eloquently than i was able to.

There seems to be a lot of Project making for the sake of it.

Sharon Doubell

Your comment that you use a Project to basically keep a copy of Charlemagne's About Section to preserve it against corruption from continual merges sounds fine but could you not achieve the same result by copying the About to a Discussion connected to Charlemagne? Or even better a Document attached to his profile?
For that matter it seems to me that the data added to an About from a merge always gets pasted at the bottom of the MPs About so if the About of the MP is locked it would be a simple matter for a Curator to unlock the About delete the bit at the bottom and then lock it again.

Dimitri, I like your idea. I think its fantastic and opens up a world of possibilities that in itself isn't a bad thing. Kudos to you, sir.

One last thought "Turning V.I.P. profiles into projects" is a quite misleading title as what you actually seem to be advocating is creating a Project for a specific profile, which anyone can do right now if they want to.

The Profile is not changed in anyway it simply now has a Project dedicated to it.

Brendan, what "world of possibilities" does the suggestion open?

You can already make a Project which only contains one Profile, so what new feature is it that is actually being proposed that you think will be so fantastic?

Alexander, I'm not quite sure how to explain it as Dimitri has pretty much said it all. Maybe if thinking of it as opening a newspaper would help. Or a tabloid as the British would say. Projects are bigger space wise, more personal contributions can be made by different people in the form of different angles or perspectives. They can be more colourful, more arty rather than the straightforwardness of cold hard facts of the profile. Their biographical history can be seen and felt, much like the character in a novel.

And why can't Geni be like Wikipedia?

I had to check my profile settings, no one has called me Alexander since my mother died.

I did not say Geni cannot be like Wikipedia although i think it would be a wasted effort duplicating the work done of Wikipedia, an especially annoying habit people have is copy&pasting whole Wikipedia articles into a Geni About but then the Wikipedia article is updated and no one knows/cares to up date the Geni profile. I recently editted an About which had 3 different versions of the Wikipedia but none of them matched the current Wiki page.

As Justin(?) said there is nothing you can do on a Project that you can't do on a Profile.
Cold hard facts in a profile is a target to aim for because the over whelming majority (in my opinion) are blank. Biographical history can readily be put into the About Section of the profiles there is no rule against it and from memory the Project/Help pages explaining MPs encourages Biographical info.