Margaret Stourton (Scrope) - Margaret SCROPE vs. Margaret CROPE (a case of mistaken identity)

My experience trying to fix mistaken family lines that are that high up in the system is that it is nearly impossible. You may need technical assistance from the administrators.

Thanks, Dan--next best thing may be to bring in the nearest curator(s) on the tree. But since I'm not a manager on this profile (and she is not my ancestor), I didn't have the nerve to stage a coup!

Fixed :)

I'm now hunting for the family of George Crope, of Ashley

Perhaps Crope is not the usual spelling. I'm not finding many Cropes. Couple of references to a John Crope born 1590, same county (Hampshire).

No Crope in VCH for Ashley

Citation:
'Parishes: Ashley', in A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 4, ed. William Page (London, 1911), pp. 440-442 http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol4/pp440-442 [accessed 9 September 2015].

I tried Googling the description of the Crope arms and found "de Croupes."

Arms not identical, but pretty close.

George Crope: "argent, six mascles, three, two and one gules."

Richard de Croupes (temp. Edw. II): "argent, six mascles, a label azure"

Back at it after I pick up the kiddo...

I got a nibble finally

'The liberty of Alresford', in A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 3, ed. William Page (London, 1908), pp. 348-354 http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol3/pp348-354 [accessed 9 September 2015].

THE LIBERTY OF ALRESFORD

The following sixteenth-century perambulation of the vill of New Alresford is preserved at the Public Record Office: 'Perambulation there beginning at the bridge to the north of the vill there and stretching east to Utley Dych and Furley Dych, and thence stretching south to the east of Shiplond over the way leading to Sutton, and thence on the western part of Swetley to Appledowne, and so by the hedge from New Alresford even to a certain ditch, and by the ditch to the southern end of Le Merchis and by the hedge to a stream, and thence north by the stream to Tottenmede, and thence east by the great stream coming out of Alresford Pond to the eastern part of Brodmed, and thence by the land of Roger Crope to the north of the mill called Townemyll and thence to the bridge.' (fn. 29)

29. a Eccl. Com. Ct. R. bdle. 136, No. 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Alresford

New Alresford was founded in the 12th/13th century, the idea originally being that of Henri de Blois, the Bishop of Winchester and brother of King Stephen of England. The design of the T-shaped town (originally named Novum Forum) was followed by de Blois' successor Godfrey de Lucy. Alresford was one of the Bishop's six new towns and was his most profitable plantation—his palace was situated in nearby Bishop's Sutton, perhaps less than a mile distant. The medieval stone bridge he built at this time is still in place.[2] This expansion also involved the construction of the Great Weir between New Alresford and Old Alresford, creating Old Alresford Pond. This remarkable period in the town's history included the construction of one of the oldest canal systems in England, based on the River Itchen.

New Alresford quickly became established as a prosperous market town, focussed on the wool, leather and the other products from sheep and cattle; in the 14th century Alresford sheep markets produced one of five highest turnovers in England. Alresford sent two members to parliament until the population was reduced by the Black Death. In the 17th century the town made news as a dangerous place to live due to the uncommonly frequent fires which razed it; in the spring of 1644, the Battle of Cheriton took place on Cheriton Down, reaching the outskirts of Alresford. Defeated Royalists set fire to houses in the town as they withdrew[citation needed]. Much of the medieval town was destroyed by a fire in 1689/90 that destroyed 117 houses in the town as well as the church and Market House, another in 1710 and a 'like calamity' in 1736.[3] Much of the town was rebuilt in the 18th century, with many of the Georgian buildings remaining today.[4]

Richard de Scrupes or Crupes?

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-10/...

https://books.google.com/books?id=3ut-Qtv2yikC&pg=PA361&lpg...

Son of Henry de Scrupes.

We are really far back now ...

There was a Nicholas Scroope of Kitchin Stoke (SIC: it's Itchen Stoke) in Com Hampshire

http://ukga.org/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?action=ViewRec&DB=13&boo...

Apparently a copy holder

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5707527
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol4/pp192-195

And Recusant

https://books.google.com/books?id=KsKLAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA69&lpg=...

I was hoping that a spelling variation would help us identify the family, but there are so many variations. I'm seeing variations on Crope (Croupes, Crupes, Croapes, Crowapes) with similar arms (six red mascles or lozenges on a silver shield, arranged three, two, one), but mainly in Dorset & Gloucester.

There are three places in Hants. named Ashley, but none in Southampton (some visitations specify Southampton instead of Hants).

Scroope of Itchen Stoke/Kitchinstoke arms is connected to--Scrope of Bolton, arms, a blue shield with a gold bend. I'm thinking the family we want has those six red (gules) mascles (open lozenges) for their arms.

Though since George Crope had no title, he may not have made it into any other visitations. Maybe that medieval knight was the only family member of note. I was hoping to find a court appearance or something, but he may have led an exceedingly quiet life!

Yah, I'm packing it in. At least we have "a" name, reasonable references, and proof she's not from "those" Scrope's. :)

Richard de Crupes, aka de Croupes, of Whittington, Gloucestershire has an effigy with the arms on his shield:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sheepdog_rex/3837761086

But he died in 1278, so he's way back! He's from this family:

WHITTINGTON...
Manor and Other Estates.

Osgot held an estate of 3 hides in Whittington in 1066 and William Leuric held it in 1086. (fn. 110) Some of William Leuric's estates in the county descended before 1166 to Robert de Croupes (Scroupes), and Richard de Croupes, who had succeeded Robert by 1190, held an estate in Whittington from the Crown for a knight's fee. In 1204, following Richard's death, his son Henry obtained seisin of his lands but in 1205 Richard's widow Maud quitclaimed the service of the knight's fee to Richard's mortgagee, Thomas de Rochford. (fn. 111) In 1216 the estate was restored to Henry perhaps after it had been confiscated (fn. 112) and in 1230 he was succeeded by his son Richard de Croupes. (fn. 113) Known by the mid 13th century as the manor of WHITTINGTON, (fn. 114) the estate passed from Richard (d. c. 1278) to his son Richard (fn. 115) (fl. 1310). The latter was succeeded by his illegitimate son Richard de Croupes, (fn. 116) who at his death in 1336 was said to hold the manor by the serjeanty of providing the service of two armed men for forty days in war. Custody of his lands during the minority of his son and heir Edmund (fn. 117) was granted to John of Ravensholm, (fn. 118) who was assessed on the knight's fee in 1346. (fn. 119) Edmund Croupes or de Croupes died seised of the manor in 1361 and his sister Alice, wife of Thomas Baskerville, was his heir. (fn. 120) Alice later married in turn Edmund Hakelyt and, by 1367, William Barndhurst (fn. 121) (fl. 1400) (fn. 122) and she was assessed for the knight's fee in 1402. (fn. 123)

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol9/pp233-248

Perhaps George Crope was a descendant, or maybe he just claimed to be, having a similar name. Wouldn't be the first time one family appropriated the crest of another.

Just for ref because you never know

https://books.google.com/books?id=H9NCAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA51&ots...

William Croppe, gent., of Thorpe Market, county Norfolk

Referenced here married to Margaret Repps; she married James Hartstonge 2nd.

https://books.google.com/books?id=H9NCAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA51&ots...

I have also seen "Crappe" as an alternate spelling for Crope. (Herr, herr, herr...)

Haven't ruled out Scrope as an alternate spelling either, but at least we are sure her father was George and not Henry. The three references above (as well as Burke's Peerage) all agree on that.