Anthony Travers (Otto Roubíček) - Finding relatives of Anthony Travers

Daniel, this is fascinating. I know that your father was a kindertransport child. Are you aware that there is already a kindertansport project here at Geni? Others in that project may have an interest in helping.

As far as a Lobel -- WOW! Because, as you know, on your mother's side of the family there are Lob, Loeb, Lobl, Löbl, etc. and many of them lived in England, where your father went beore he came to America.

If he is a Lobel-relative, then rather than these folks being relatives of your mother, well ... they must be HIS relatives. Hmmmmm.

I found a letter this morning with a lot of new information. It is written by my father, dated March 10, 1950 and addressed to "Dear People." He was living in London at the time and preparing to emigrate to the U.S. he had obtained a birth certificate from the Czechoslovak government and he laid out the contents of it in the letter, apparently even reproducing its form and layout.

He also reveals, interestingly, how little he knows about his own family background.

Also, the first names of he and his father, in this birth certificate stated as "Ota" and "Oldrich," respectively, are different than they are stated to be in the birth certificate I have in my possession which my father obtained in 1991 or 1992, which states the names to be "Otto" and "Ulrich," respectively. I discuss the Czech/German naming issues in a the separate discussion under the "Spelling Variations" discussion.

Now the new information:

First. my father reveals his paternal grandmother was "born a Getreuer," but further states "There, I am afraid, my knowledge ends."

He also states "my father's people come from a small village called Peruce near Louny (an der Eiger)."

His mother is identified as Emma, neè Schicklvová, which we knew, but the new information is her parents' names: they are identified as "Eduard Schickl & Filipina, neè Schwengerová."

This means, incidentally, that my father's great-grandfather's surname was "Schwenger." (See separate discussion under "Spelling Variations" where I discuss briefly Czech female surname naming conventions.)

Sadly, my father mentions that until he saw this document he did not know his maternal grandmother's maiden name and that "This is all I know of my mother's family."

More clues about relatives in England: in a letter from my father dated Jan. 2, 1950, he states that he spent Christmas day with his relations in Guilford. He mentions "the boy," about twenty, studying economics at Nottingham University. So we have relatives residing in Guilford, England, with a son born in the 1929-1930 vicinity.

Found a telegram from my father to "Löbl" - at 26 York Road, Guildford.

Note: in previous post, I mistakenly typed "Guilford," rather than "Guildford."

So I think we can conclude that at least some of my father's "Lobel" or "Löbl" relatives resided at 26 York Road, Guildford, England.

You are making great progress. The British census may help. Are you a member of Ancestry.com? -- That is how i found our cousin Edith Collett's husband's name.

I met Fred and Jean Lobel when I was traveling in England. They were very nice, and I found a letter from them to Tony from 1983 describing my visit. He mentions a sister Gerda and children John and Anne (I think -- the handwriting is difficult to decipher). Says I reminded him of Tony. Did not keep in touch with them unfortunately.

Any idea what their precise relationship to Dad is?

The Lobels in England and the Brills in Chile appear to be related, based on old correspondence I'm reading. In correspondence to the Lobel's, my father, for example, apologizes for not having written the Brills.

Can we presume that the Brills of Chile are the same as the Brülls of Germany?

I don't think we can presume that. I don't know who the Brülls are, first of all. My father may have had relatives in Germany, but his very few known relations (his parents, grandparents, a great grandparent name) were in Czechoslovakia.

Additionally, today my son Tyler had a friends over and one is German-speaking. She translated a letter from the Brill's and I now believe, though am not certain, that my father's relative may have been Alejandro Brill's wife, not Alejandro. Her first name, I believe, is Else or Elsie.

Catherine, on an earlier post, you mentioned our cousin Edith Collett. I had never heard of her, and she didn't show up on Geni when I searched for her by name.

An hour ago, though, I found a letter from Edith Collett, addressed to "Toni and sons" expressing condolences for my mother's death. It is signed "Your Cousin (?) Edith Collett." Did the question mark indicate that she wasn't sure whether to call my father her cousin? What is her exact relation to us?

Catherine - re Edith Collett - never mind, I found her

She would be Anthony's cousin-by-marriage; she was the daughter of Clara Kohn Lang and so was your mother's first cousin. She was a very nice woman. I visited her while in London in the 1960s and she gave me a gift of money because she saw that i was there on the cheap. She told me to enjoy myself. She and my mother always stayed in touch with letters and cards and occasional visits. Oddly, my grandfather Theo had died of a heart attack while visiting her in the 1950s.

Re: Brills and Brülls -- we have some Bruell and Brull relatives back before the Nazi era. They appear in three family tree lists i have -- the Kohn tree, the Steinhardts of Floss tree, and the Hopf-Bing-Iglauer tree (which also contains Kohns), No Brills, though. This is a typical Brüll. LOL! Sophie Brüll
.

Speaking of Bruells -- some live in Israel now and are Barlevs.... Here is one path to them:

http://www.geni.com/path/Catherine-Anna-Manfredi-Yronwode+is+relate...

If your father was DNA-related to a Czech Bruell / Brill family, it would be a cool research project to try to find out if it is "our" Brüll family, which has Luria - Auerbach - Kohn - Maharal - Davidic line connections.

Such a connection would put your father in the "distant cousin" range with your mother, a not-uncommon occurrence among Ashkenazi Jews, as you know, which gives special Cousin-Combimatory-Count points -- but it would also very likely give you Double-Davidic-Descent points, a game-winning strategy!

Ack! How could i have overlooked this! Here is the closest Brüll to us of all! Jeez, i feel like a dunce for forgetting her! Schönchen Brüll Arnstein our fourth great grandmother! Schoenchen Arnstein

So now i am coming to the conclusion that your father -- with his Lobel and Brill relatives who originated from Czechoslovakia -- was a distant cousin of your mother, who descended from Löbl and Brüll ancestors of the family of the Maharal of Prague. If they spoke of such things, Tony and Lisa probably would have known or suspected that they had such connections.

I surmise this because in my mother's discussions with people she met who were Jewish, she would always ask, "What names do you have in your family?" and she could make a very quick assessment of their familial connectivity to her.

For example, when i introduced Lilo to my husband-to-be Peter Paskin (Pesachovich), she asked for his family names -- and afterwards, she said, "Why do you want to marry a Litvak?" but when she later met Peter's brother David's new wife Pamela Hort, she received a list of names more to her liking and said afterward, "Pamela comes from a good family." (And Geni proved that my ex-sister-in-law Pamela Hort is my 11th or so cousin and of the Davidic lineage.) Lilo had an uncanny sense for this, it seemed to me at the time, but i think now that she had merely skim-memorized the 500 surnames in our family tree, as have i.

How did your parents meet? Where? When?

Also, if Lisa and Tony believed or suspected that they were distant cousins due to shared Löbl and Brüll family surnames, this would doubly explain why Edith Collett signed her letter "Your Cousin (?) Edith Collett."

My parents met in Chicago, in the University of Chicago environs. My father was at the University studying for a masters in political science. My mother had graduated with a masters from the University of Chicago's school of Social Service Administration in 1949 and was working. I believe they were introduced by friends. From what I can see they must have met in 1953, maybe 1952. They were married in February 1954.

Even if your suspicion about the familial connection is correct, I doubt my father would have had any idea. Look at my earlier post here - my father indicated in correspondence with a friend that he knew hardly anything about either his mother's or father's family.

I also note that I still do not know what his relation is to the Lobels and Brills, or where the Lobels and Brills originated from.

I understand. And it also occurs to me that someone in England received and helped Tony when he arrived. Perhaps his foster or helping family were English Lobels and Brills, not DNA-connected to him.

Another thought ... if Tony mentioned those surnames to Lisa as helper-family names he knew in England, she would have recognized them as being of her family, if she had ever seen the Kohn stammbaums.

I believe there is a blood relation to the Lobels. There is a Tanta Greta or Gretal he corresponds with that lives with the Lobels. I haven't pieced it together yet, though.

My Name is Michael David Bruell [=Brüll]. Catherine showed a connection with me yesterday. I'm living in Jerusalem, Israel. My late brother changed his name to Barlev. I do not know any other Bruells from our near family in Israel. I am working with Geni for some years and connected my family tree to the big tree mannaged by Rick Simon - where you can find many Bruells. From our family I know- from Geni- about a David Bruell [1818-1880] who lived in New York and changed to "Brill". All his wide family are Brills. Most of them live in The US.
The Chech. Brills are a different family - being related to the Maharal [The abbreviation of : "Beit Rabi (I)Yehuda Leib"]. But...To make things more interesting - I found in Geni that my father's grandmother's family is connected to the Rapaport family who changed to "Arnstein". schoenchen Bruell Arnstein is married to Rappaport-Arnstein. I've no Idea where she blongs in the Bruell tree. I'll try to find out.
I shall try to find mor information and let you know.
Michael

Hello, Michael D. Bruell -- and welcome to this discussion. Our family is related to the Maharal and i believe you are too.

Schönchen Brüll Arnstein is my fourth great grandmother and has the same relationship to my second cousins Daniel Travers and Michael Travers.

The thing is, Geni only calculates and shows one path -- and we are related many ways.

For one path -- a 12th cousin path -- between us, see http://www.geni.com/path/Catherine-Anna-Manfredi-Yronwode+is+relate...

But although that path relates us by going all the way back to the age of the Lurias, i think there is only one Brüll family here and we are also more recently related.

Your Bruell group lived in and around Fürth in Franconia, and so did portions of our Kohn family. But some of our family was said to have come from Prague, and several family members maintained business connections in Bohemia up until Hitler's time. (For instance, Bruno Kohn imported Czech glass to England.)

The Czech Bruell family members may have lost track of the Franconia Bruell family, but they originated as one family, i am pretty sure.

Continuing: This path shows Michael D Bruell's relationship to Schönchen Brüll Arnstein:

http://www.geni.com/path/Sch%C3%B6nchen-Br%C3%BCll-Arnstein+is+rela...

She is listed as a stepmother in this path -- but that is only a partial picture -- we lack information on her parents, but it looks like she was DNA-related as well as a step-relative. She was a Brüll who married an Arnstein. Her step-daughter (born Arnstein) then married a Brüll. This is typical of our family. I call it "The Conservation of Surnames Principle." LOL!

Also, i find it very amusing that Michael and Daniel are the given names of the two Travers brothers AND on the two Bruell brothers! A funny coincidence, and evidence of The Conservation of Given Names Principle. LOL.

Oh, and thank you for the information on the Brills of New York. I am glad to include them in our cousin-hood.

I wonder if they are related to the clothing store owner after whom the Brill Building was named -- it was once a center of the music industry in New York.

Bingo!!!! Take a look at this.

http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno?apm=0&aid=ptb&datum=...

Randy, I thanked you in a message already and I want to thank you again here. You are amazing!!!