Sir Ralph de Brereton - Attention Curators especially Erica Howton

We've been over this before, in great detail.

The dates can't be made to work. The descent of property is ambiguous. There is negative evidence because no Brereton was among the Competitors for the Scottish throne. The heraldic evidence dates from 300 years too late. The monumental evidence rests on a tomb that has been reconstructed.

Citing late compilations is just not enough to overcome actual evidence.

I'm not sure why I was called out - I don't think I'm the curator for any of these profiles.

Currently Geni says: Ada of Huntingdon, Heiress of Yardley is your 23rd great grandfather's wife's mother.

Through the Brereton line.

I've been willing to chop and change when the evidence (or lack of it) goes against me, even when it costs me connections that I really liked.

Sometimes I've found another line to the same person, sometimes not.

Harassing the curators won't get their cooperation, WILL antagonize them and other people, and MAY get you banned. Is it worth it?

Apparently I'm curator on this one, and I'm out of town (western Poland) until after Wednesday. It will also take awhile to get to this one given the surprisingly large backlog I've picked up since getting ill before getting on the road last week.

Having said that, Justin's case seems pretty straight-forward, and I'd support the actions he would suggest here. -Ben.

I'm sorry, Michael, but you're on the wrong side on this one. "The real story isn't in accounts, it's in account books". And somebody found a reference in those account books (the Pipe Rolls) to Ada de Huntington being dead by 1247 and her properties, and their rents, going to her husband (Henry de Hastings) until he also died in 1250. (After which they did NOT go to the Breretons, but to the Lusignan family - indicating that the Breretons had *no claim* on them.)

Unless you're going to do a Dale and come up with a wacky theory about her being "declared dead" for the benefit of the Crown (which IS NOT a real-history possibility), precedence has to go to a contemporary or near-contemporary financial account over a tomb rebuilt in the 16th? century, a peerage patent from 1624, and 17th century and later heraldic multi-quarterings.

Did you notice there were four or five Adas in the same family in just three generations? How likely is it, do you think, that later generations would *not* get one or more of them mixed up? :-S

This might be interesting also - it's an analysis of the Fine Rolls of Henry III tracing the holdings of the manor of Brampton, 1193-1313.

Calendar year Lord of Brampton
1193–1200 Lambert of Cologne
1201–1202 King John
1202–1219 David earl of Huntingdon but seized back by the king during his rebellion 1215–1217
1219–1220 King Henry
1220–1227 Ranulf earl of Chester and Lincoln during the minority of Earl David’s heir
1227–1237 John le Scot, earl of Huntingdon and Chester, Earl David’s son and heir
1237–1241 Helen, countess of Chester and Huntingdon, Earl John’s widow as dower; married to Robert de Quency
1241–1250 Henry of Hastings in right of his wife [Ada], co-heiress of Earl John
1250–1256 Geoffrey de Lusignan, Henry III’s half brother, during the minority of Henry of Hastings’ son and heir
1257–1265 Henry of Hastings junior
1266 Imbert de Montferrand, Hastings having forfeited his lands
1267–1269 Henry of Hastings junior
1269–1283 Richard and then Edmund of Cornwall during the minority of Henry of Hastings’ son and heir
1283–1313 John of Hastings, son and heir of Henry

So after the Lusignan "caretaking", the manor went back to the Hastings family, and the Breretons didn't even get a look-in. Strong evidence that there was no marriage to the Brampton heiress and they had no claim.

Michael, you say you haven't seen any proof but we had a discussion about this that went on for weeks. When Pamela says above "Please explain in detail" she is trying to re-start a debate that she's already had.