Elizabeth Tuthill (Woolmer) - Did Elizabeth Woolmer Tuthill (1567-1587) really have 4 children by two spouses in 20 years of life?

Hi Randy

This doesn't look to be a case of claims, but of mistake merge(s) on un curated profiles (we're curating as fast as we can ....).

Geni recently provided curators with an "un do merge" right for merges done after Aug 24 2014. So let me fire it off, see what it gives us. There are good notes in the profile overview to follow for a re build.

Tagging Linda Kathleen Thompson, (c)

Curating Elizabeth Paine

The source of her maiden name is Torrey's New England Marriages before 1700:

PAINE, Thomas (1586-1644, Salem) & Elizabeth [?TUTHILL] (1584-1657): Eng, 22 Nov 1610; Salem/Southold, LI {Reg. 5:331, 332, 53:414; EIHC 1:3, 50:325; Corey (1900) 10; Paine 1:7, 11, 12, 93; Salem 1:444; Fellowes-Davis Anc. 88; Paine (#1) 9, 18; Wickham-Billard 142}

However I am not sure the proof is in place to support the claim she is a daughter of William and Elizabeth (Woolmer) Tuthill

Certainly you had noted Thomas Paine, of Salem as married to Elizabeth (unknown)

I'm continuing with tree repair.

Additional comments welcome.

Erica HowtonI trust your judgement on this. Feel free to detach and make Elizabeth back to unknown.

The best sourcing I'm seeing so far is this book:

Thomas Payne of Salem and his descendants: the Salem branch of the Paine family, Author: Nathaniel Emmons Paine; H M Paine Publisher: Haverhill, Mass., Record Pub. Co., 1928. (view at Hathitrust) page 17:

"Henry Bloomfield may have been a brother to his wife Elizabeth or Bloomfield's wife may have been his sister. A search of the parishes in Colchester may give additional light on this point."

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89069611663;skin=default

There might be a case to make for Elizabeth as a Tuthill, but I'm not making it, and have set up her parents as "unknown" pending that case being made.

Elizabeth Tuthill's father

She is not listed in this 1898 study:

http://www.archive.org/stream/tuthillfamilyoft00aker#page/n8/mode/1up

[Tuthill family of Tharston, Norfolk County, England and Southold, Suffolk County, New York also written Totyl, Totehill, Tothill, Tuttle, etc. Published 1898 by J. Little] in [N.Y . Written in English.

Excuse me for interjecting this, but I went in to check on grandpa Thomas Paine's profile, only to find that he has become my 1st cousin 14X. In reading thru the revisions, on 9/13/14 Mary Tripp (my GGM) was disconnected from her parent, Thomas Paine, & there now 5 generations between Mary & Thomas. This seems like rather a large correction with no sources listed.....&, if correct, he should still be a GGF - just further back. Does your Paine book list Mary's father?

Linda - do you mean this Mary (Paine) Tripp?

Mary (Paine) (Tripp) Engell

She's one generation younger than Thomas Paine of Salem. I haven't gone back in England to look for common lines but her profile is sourced? Off hand I wouldn't think so, as her origins are Lincolnshire & Thomas' were Suffolk?

A search in http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89069611663;skin=default yielded no "Tripp" results.

I have the same question Linda does. Mary's parents were changed from Thomas to Anthony. These early Portsmouth families are often confusing. I'd like to see the evidence for the change.

Her birthdate is an estimate. She was from Lincolnshire if her father was Anthony, but from Suffolk if her father was Thomas. This is why I hate putting places in profiles without direct evidence.

Yes - do you see in "revisions" that on 9/13/14 she was disconnected from her parents Thomas Paine? I hadn't looked at this area in months, so may be remembering imperfectly, but I am "following" Thomas & I only follow grandparents (except in rare instances, like Elvis!).

Yes. Exactly. At one point, years ago, I grabbed a bunch of info from 160 Allied Families, but didn't take time to investigate in detail because my connection was still speculative. It's a good compilation, but not without errors. I'm reasonably certain that it showed Mary daughter of Thomas, although I can't find a photocopy to be sure.

Thomas doesn't look as likely as Anthony, but it would be nice to have a real source. I'm not particularly persuaded by the lack of a mention in a 1928 genealogy.

Additional gleanings from viewing inside http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89069611663;skin=default

- Page 7. the parish register of Wrentham has not been preserved prior to 1602 and
- Page 8. the early portion found extant reported irregular & deficient in 1833.
- Page 8 - 11 - "Old Family Record" (transcription & scans for the marriage of Thomas Payne & Katherine Harfsant & births of their children)
- Page 9 - Mary the daughter of Thomas born 12 Oct 1611

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I have to go back to finish fixing the Tuthill families. The profile for Mary (Paine) Tripp does have source notes and cites

2. Illean Hammar and Earnest Klein, Tripps of Quinte, page v.

Sorry, spoke too soon. Digging deeper into notes I have two Mary Paines (actually more). Mary (1617-1686) daughter of Anthony Paine married John Tripp. Mary (1611-1697) daughter of Thomas married Philemon Dickerson.

Looks like I need to catch up on some 30-year-old data entry.

Again from within the book (and there are other sources also for Mary Dickerson )

Page 16 - will of Thomas Payne of Salem proved 1644. Mentions "Mary, my daughter" (presumably the one born in 1612)

Page 18 - quoting Miss Akerly, genealogist for Southold families: "I cannot find any Elizabeth Tuthill of that age ...". [to have been wife of Thomas Payne of Salem]

Page 18 - [daughter] Mary married Philemon Dickerson and went to Southold between 1646 - 1652.

I'm not seeing a reason to think this Mary Paine was the same as the Mary Paine who married John Tripp?

Well, someone has connected the profiles, then.If you look at the Thomas Paine profile featured, & the Mary Tripp profile you mentioned above, they have the same people.

Sorry, didn't scroll up far enough before replying!

Randall Jeffrey Seaver

Thank you for finding, and pointing out, the Tuthill problem. Below is your new pathway to Benjamin Harrison.

http://www.geni.com/path/Randall-Seaver+is+related+to+Benjamin-Harr...

Thank you, Erica!

I also thank Erica for unintentionally leading me to a Bigelow that wasn't on the tree. And while working on these Bigelows I found an Abraham Lincoln. You can probably guess where this lead me....of course I had to find if he was a relative of THE Abraham Lincoln. :)

http://www.geni.com/path/Abraham-Lincoln+is+related+to+Abraham-Linc...