Charlton Camville/Charlton Horethorne and the Camville family

Started by Private User on Wednesday, March 11, 2015
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From the Victoria County History - Somerset, vol. 7, pp. 84-93:

By the mid 12th century the terre tenancy was held by the Camville family. Gerard de Camville (fl. 1140) (fn. 48) was followed by Richard (d. 1176). (fn. 49) Richard was succeeded by his son Gerard (d. 1214), (fn. 50) after whose death CHARLTON appears to have been seized by Hubert de Burgh. In 1217 it was restored to Gerard's widow Nichole de la Hay (d. 1230) and to her son Richard de Camville (d. 1226). Nichole was followed by Richard's daughter Idony (d. c. 1252) (fn. 51) and by Idony's son William Longespée (d. 1257). William's daughter Margaret married Henry de Lacy, earl of Lincoln (d. 1311), (fn. 52) and their daughter Alice married Thomas Plantagenet, earl of Lancaster (d. 1322). (fn. 53)

* 48. Dugdale, Mon. v. 89.
* 49. Rot. de Dominabus (P.R.S. xxxv), 84 n.
* 50. Pipe R. 1189 (P.R.S. x.), 91; Sanders, Eng. Baronies, 109.
* 51. Rot. Litt. Claus. (Rec. Com.), i. 296b; S.R.S. vi. 75; Ex. e Rot. Fin. (Rec. Com.), i. 207; Sanders, Eng. Baronies, 109.
* 52. Sanders, Eng. Baronies, 112; Feud. Aids, iv. 289, 299; Cal. Inq. p.m. v, p. 157.
* 53. Sanders, Eng. Baronies, 112, 138; Feud. Aids, iv. 322.

It sounds good, but there's a BIG problem - Stanton Harcourt. Richard de Camville d. 1176 held the manor of Stanton "jure uxoris" (in right of his wife, Melicent de Rethel, who had been given it by Queen Adeliza of Louvain, second and childless wife to King Henry I of England). He had no son Gerard or Gerald or anything beginning with G. He had an *only* son Richard, who was a minor in 1176 - and Henry II used that as an excuse to take the manor of Stanton away from the Camvilles.

This Richard got the manor back from King Richard I and went on the Third Crusade with him - a quid pro quo is strongly to be suspected. (Either "If you give us back the manor I'll go on your Crusade", or "If you want the manor back, you'll go on my Crusade".) But he never came back, and he left no heirs. The manor then passed to his *sister* Isabel, who had married Robert d'Harcourt, and the manor became known as Stanton Harcourt and remained in the Harcourt family thereafter.

The Gerard de Camville who married Nicolaa de Haye was a cousin, son of a different Richard de Camville (Sir Richard de Camville of Warwickshire, d. c. 1162).

The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Ricardus de Campville in perdono per breve Regis" in Warwickshire [and] Leicestershire in [1161/62][2044]. “Richardus de Camvilla” founded Combe, Warwickshire, with the consent of “uxoris meæ et filii mei et hæredis Gerardi” by undated charter, witnessed by “...Gerardo filio meo et hærede, Hugone fratre meo...”[2045]. This is not the Richard de Camville who had an only son Richard and only one brother, Roger (deceased). Isabel de Camville d'Harcourt was the last heir of *that* line left standing.

There were at least two, maybe three, Richard de Camvilles alive at the same time, one in Oxfordshire (deceased wife Melicent, deceased brother Roger, son Richard, daughter Isabel), one in Warwickshire (wife unknown, sons Gerard *and* Richard (and probably Walter and WIlliam as well), daughter Matilda, brother Hugh), and perhaps a third in Hampshire (if that one is not to be identified with one of the others).

Sadly, Medlands got all this completely wrong, because they were not paying attention to Stanton Harcourt. And so did the Victoria County History of Somerset - for the same reason. (The Oxfordshire VCH got it right, see below:)

In 1066 STANTON, including land in South Leigh, was held by Alnod, and in 1086 by Odo of Bayeux: it was reckoned at 26 hides, (fn. 7) of which one lay in Hanborough and was given to Oseney abbey c. 1138. (fn. 8) Another 1 ½ hide in 'Pereio', probably in South Leigh, and held under Odo by Wadard, was apparently absorbed into the main Stanton estate before the late 12th century. (fn. 9) Following Odo's forfeiture the estate was held possibly by Ranulf Flambard, and in 1101 by Rualon d'Avranches, perhaps in custody. (fn. 10) Before 1130 Henry I gave it to his second wife Queen Adela, (fn. 11) who alienated it piecemeal, mostly after 1135.

Before 1141 Adela gave to her kinswoman Millicent, wife of Robert Marmion, land in Stanton Harcourt and South Leigh worth £40, four fifths of the value in 1086. When Robert died c. 1144 the estate, later called STANTON HARCOURT, passed to Millicent's second husband Richard de Camville, on whose death in 1176 it was seized by Henry II. (fn. 12) It was held in custody by Richard Rufus until 1190, (fn. 13) when Richard I restored it to Richard de Camville's son Richard, who died on crusade in 1191; it then passed to Robert de Harcourt of Bosworth (Leics.), who had married the elder Richard de Camville's daughter Isabel. (fn. 14) Thereafter, apart from a brief period in the early 17th century, Stanton Harcourt descended in the main line of the English Harcourts, who made it their principal seat until the early 18th century.

If there *had* been any other male heirs, Robert d'Harcourt could not have inherited Stanton Harcourt through his wife.

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