Bertolt Brecht, Lotte Lenya -- or Jews Only?

Lúcia Pilla,

Can you please answer this.

Well, I'm not the "owner" of the project :-) but I think that everyone who escaped from holocaust by migration should be included.

Technically Lotte Lenya et al. were political refugees fleeing the Nazis - which is not the same as "Holocaust refugees".
The Holocaust refers specifically to the attempted annihilation of the Jewish people.
Moreover Jews could not change their ethnic origins - whereas Communists could theoretically change their minds and join the Nazi party.
Lotte Lenya et al. were not victims of the Holocaust but of political oppression.
Apart from Jews, the only others that could be considered victims of the Holocaust are the Sinti.

It seems to me that there is controversy, at least as I read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Victims_and_death_toll

Regardless of the attempts, by some, to diminish the suffering of the Jews during the Holocaust or Shoah by claiming that others suffered equally: the modern term of "Holocaust" originated (from the Greek) to describe the "burning" of a whole species - in other words the genocide committed against the Jews.
Granted Nazi persecution against the Poles, for instance, was vicious. However nothing was on the scale of the Holocaust against the Jews. The Wikipedia article mentioned clearly states that "Most Polish Jews (perhaps 90% of their pre-war population) perished during the Holocaust, while most Christian Poles survived the brutal German occupation."
Anyway the preamble for the "Holocaust Refugees" project in Geni is quite clear:
"The German Nazi persecution started with the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses in 1933, reached a first climax during the Kristallnacht in 1938 and culminated in the Holocaust of the European Jewry."

Dear Simon (v.ltd.availability) Goodman,
My English is not so good and I am not Jew.
Looking around I think that deny that others suffered equally, just because they are not Jews, can diminish the suffering of these other people and families. If the word "Holocaust" is a problem, please suggest another.

Dear Lucia,
I understand English is not your first language. I wish I could write in Portuguese.
However the term "Holocaust" should refer exclusively to the Nazi Holocaust against the Jews.
(If you are referring to the "Armenian Holocaust" for instance, then you must add the qualifying word "Armenian").
It is an insult to the Jewish victims to say that others suffered equally - they did not - no other people suffered as much as the Jewish people during the Holocaust Era.
It is simply not true to say that Berthold Brecht was a victim of the "Holocaust".
Why don't you start a new project such as "Refugees from Nazi Oppression".

Dear Simon,
in the last 10 days I added most of the entries in this project, I presume. I agree completely with you that Holocaust in referring only to Jewish victims and to victims that was perished cause of her race like the Sinti and Roma. Concerning to this background I added only people from whom I know that they was Jewish and that's it.
Other refugees need own projects. The Armenian Holocaust is a good example!

I can't imagine how suffering of a non-Jew can be an insult for a Jew but I have no problem to change the name of the project if that solves the issue. What do you think Malka Mysels?

Lúcia Pilla,

Here's a suggestion: Political and Holocaust Refugees.

Kevin

Lúcia Pilla Personally I would like to keep this vitally significant topic attached to the Holocaust Umbrella Portal of Projects, and yet Simon (v.ltd.availability) Goodman and Thomas Föhl (c) raise an excellent point. ie.
http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206419.pdf

". . . By the 1950s, the English term Holocaust came to be employed as the term for the murder of the Jews in Europe by the Nazis. Although the term is sometimes used with reference to the murder of other groups by the Nazis, strictly speaking, those groups do not belong under the heading of the Holocaust, nor are they included in the generally accepted statistic of six million victims of the Holocaust." . . .

But, since original intention of this project was to focus on the refugees who escaped Nazi Germany, being predominantly persecuted Jews, I wonder if a slight change in the name of the Project in order to be more inclusive would be satisfactory?

There is indeed something troubling for us to start dividing into distinct groups those who fled their homeland for their lives under Nazi rule.

Possible titles?
"Holocaust: Reich Refugees & Emigrés 1933-1945"
"Reich / Holocaust Refugees", or
"Reich Refugees during Holocaust"

or something along those lines that would be satisfactory to all.

Anyone of them is fine to me, Malka Mysels.

Lúcia Pilla The title is now,
Holocaust: Reich Refugees & Emigrés 1933-1945

possible title for all refugees including non-jews and other groups like communists, homosexuals of both gender, Jehovas witnesses, victims perished through T 4 Euthanasia-program and so much others – perhaps simply:

»Refugees during Holocaust 1933–1945«

Thomas Föhl (c) Do you think such a broad title might include even some perpetrators, not just the persecuted?

"Reich Refugees during Holocaust 1933-1945"

Malka Mysels,

Never thought about that as the best way to say it.

What about being even more clear and start the project name as Third Reich.

Kevin

Kevin Lawrence Hanit Good idea, except "Third Reich" would impact the title by taking the focus away from "Refugees" which is the crux of the project.

Malka Mysels,

Agreed.

Just to get back to the original question: Brecht i can see as a political refugee, but Lenya was married to a Jew. She would have suffered the same fate as her husband. I was told that this is the reason they divorced (to save her) and then they remarried once they were both in the USA.

I am willing to say "Jews Only" and leave it as "Jewish Holocause Refugeees," if that is the concensus. I am not casting a vote here. Just asking.

Catherine Anna Manfredi Yronwode Thank you so much for drawing our attention to address the parameters of the project. The name of the Project has been revised so as to be more inclusive leaving room for all "Reich Refugees during Holocaust 1933-1945".

Thanks. That's good to know.