John Bray: parentage unproven

Hatte Blejer (absent until Nov 1)
Erica Howton
living Cooley

Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy,Vol. Curator

Who wants to take on curating the Bray family, most of whom are uncurated? I am not an expert on sources for British families. The only source I trust is Plantagenet Ancestry, and that does not cover many families.

Maybe Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy,Vol. Curator?

I would not assume that Tudor Place, Find A Grave, or certainly not The Peerage or Our Royal and Noble Ancestors (whatever it's called) was correct. In general, I look for more recent articles in NEGHS for research on ancestry of early Americans or in The Great Migration Begins.

Sir Edward Bray, MP, of Vachery Park

That I curate is incorrect according to HOP online

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/br...

It will take me some time to fix the Geni tree in this area.

In the meantime I would recommend following the Whitney group findings and RELENTLESSLY disconnecting speculative parents. They can always be "easily" reconnected if proven if & when reliable sources like NEHGR (the register), HOP, etc indicate.

We do no one any service to keep poorly sourced links.

Yay.

And I'm noting the sources you cited. They can't have me for the Arabic profiles if you all drag me into the British genealogy world ;)

Thank You, Erica!!!! and Hatte!!!! That is exactly, the way I felt about the lines. And Hatte, I didn't mean to drag you away from the Arabics! ;-) I just recalled the wonderful solution round, we had created with Elinor Whitney and was hoping lightning would strike twice! And looky there, it did!
:-D
Glad to have the lines under Erica's care!

p.s. I have quite a bit of reserve, with cutting the unproven parentages, without being a curator myself, since we all know how personally, some can take these amputations. (No matter how appropriate)
I would truly, appreciate it, if those with a (C) could/would do this.
And who knows, maybe someday, I will also, be chosen to call a (C) my own. ;-) <3

I am with Erica 100% on her last statement:

In the meantime I would recommend following the Whitney group findings and RELENTLESSLY disconnecting speculative parents. They can always be "easily" reconnected if proven if & when reliable sources like NEHGR (the register), HOP, etc indicate.

We do no one any service to keep poorly sourced links.

My only caveat is for profiles like my 9th great grandfather, John Baldwin of Milford, where we know he fits into the general Baldwin family. He came on the same boat. He settled the same place. He's mentioned in the will of his uncle. And we know who his parents are not and that leaves one couple who are assumed to be his parents. It's not a fantasy in those kinds of cases :)

I always need to have a link as I'm easily confused.

I've finished some cleanup "above."

We we talking about disconnecting

John Bray, of London

From parents

Sir Edward Bray, MP, of Vachery Park

&

Beatrice Braye

I've made a parentless Sir John Bray, of Hareby profile married to Lady Johanna Bray father of Anna Wight

If he proves out to be the same as another John Bray he can be merged. In the meantime, Hareby is not London.

Added this to the profile for John Bray, of London & I will make "unknown parent" placeholders as well.

==comments==

Seen as child of [Sir Edward Bray, MP, of Vachery Park '''Edward Bray'''] & [Beatrice Braye '''Beatrice Shirley''']. There does not seem to be substantiation for this claim: their sons were Edward & Owen. Disconnected Jan 2015.

I know how images are sensitive now, I offer 4 possiblitys If you dont like them please take them out I know you Two are working your tails off here.

I've also disconnected Ann Bates & Sara Hilhill Braye from Sir Edward Bray, MP, of Vachery Park & Beatrice Braye

Is it possible they are related to John Bray, of London

I offer this resource to researchers

Memorials of St. Margaret's church, Westminister
comprising the parish registers, 1539-1660, and other churchwardens' accounts, 1460-1603 ed. by Arthur Meredyth Burke ...Published 1914 by Eyre & Spottiswoode, Ltd. in London .

Available on line at https://archive.org/details/memorialsofstmar00westrich

William Owen "Bill" Irwin could I trouble you to look for a less generic image for John Bray, of London

He was a merchant tailor of London, perhaps a member of the Livery Company. He was a churchwarden at St Margaret's of London & was married there. The "first reason" for an image is disambiguation -- a red cross flag doesn't really help that. :(

It would be much appreciated.

Re: curating "bray lines"

I don't really work by line so much. I kind of have "zones" --- a more horizontal slice where I have some comfort with finding resources.

My (preferred) Anglo American zones are First arrivers to Massachusetts & Virginia, back to Scotland & England, as "recently only" as I can get away with.

:):)

Re: Reginald Bray, Esq., of Stene and Hinton

He does not "fit" this family

How do I know that? Partly from the "very nice overview" work done for Joan Bray by William Owen "Bill" Irwin

Tasty profile, Bill.

What I did is go a step further and reorder the siblings by birth date. That also gave me a chance to see that

Reginald was born 1559 - which is OK for a parent marriage date of 13 Aug 1553, but some years before the other children ... And with a name that resonates in the Eaton-Bray family ... NOT the London family.

What do you think?

Also - I find a child list within a profile the single most useful tool for proofreading. Bill nicely provided this one:

Children of John and Margaret (Haslonde) Bray:

i. John Bray, baptized 30 Dec 1554. St. Margaret, Westminster; buried 28 Apr 1555, St. Margaret.
ii. Margaret Bray, baptized St. Margaret, Westminster 17 Feb 1556/7, buried 2 Mar 1556/7, St. Margaret.
iii. Laurence Bray, baptized St. Margaret, Westminster 11 Oct 1558, buried 24 Mar 1569/70, St. Margaret.
iv. Joan Bray, a chrisom child (unbaptized), buried 27 June 1560, St. Margaret, Westminster.
v. Thomas Bray, baptized 29 Nov 1562, St. Margaret, Westminster, buried 22 Mar 1569/70, St. Margaret.
vi. Mary Bray, baptized 24 Dec 1564, St. Margaret, Westminster; buried St Margaret, Westminster 25 Sep 1629; married St Margaret, Westminster 10 May 1583 Thomas Whitney, born say 1560 or earlier, buried St Margaret, Westminster 15 Apr 1637.
vii. Henry Bray, baptized 6 Oct 1566, St. Margaret, Westminster, apparently died soon.
viii. Henry Bray, baptized 4 Feb 1567/8, St. Margaret, Westminster, no further record.

I don't see any Reginald's, so he's sliced off.

the sugestions were for Sir John Bray, of Hareby

Ok I fixed a few and added Find a Grave with children info, Hope this helps

Hello Bray collaborators, curators and cousins!
I have to catch up a tad, on the thread and it's contents, since I was AWOL for a spell, as we had a small show to do last night, here in Puerto Rico.
;-)

I see Erica and Bill have done a great job, though, so far! :-*

Hatte, also, agree with your opinion of, "exceptions to the rule", in regards to "unproven parentages" attatched to unproven parents, as far as leaving those in place, should they have some sort of family legend, yet to be documented or somehow otherwise proven and/or were connected on hand of family legend passed down from generation to generation, as in the case of my ancestor, Antonio de Los Reyes Correa Rodriguez, Capt., who my paternal grandmother told us all in the 80's was her 8th great grandfather and for whom we had a contracted a genealogist "do" the work documenting these lines, but my adopted mother and first cousin Jean D'Arcy Maculaitis, placed this "family treasure" into storage some time ago (about 10 years ago, now...) and as she has been working feverishly on a series of books (25 of them, to be exact), for her school, hadn't found the chance to go to said storage room to pull this out for me, yet. Plus, in between this time along came hurricaine Sandy and blew away most of the Jersey Shore, to boot... And much time and effort has been consumed in clean up/rebuilding, too.

Which is why, as I am working my way up this branch from Grandma to Antonio, (I have been able to close the !10!generation gap up through to a half- way marker, on my own! ;-) ) and have therefore, left paternal "place holder" fathers, to be able to be close enough to the line, to analyze the already documented paths of the others, connected to him.

I will do some intense research, this afternoon/evening and see what I can turn up, in regards to the BRAY(s) in question.

Again, thank you much, for all of your attention to these profiles!!!
You All Rock!!!
And in the hopes of not seeming all too redundant, Bill, truly a great job done on Joan's profile. ;-)

xoxoxoxTheresa Renée

Just adding this link, to the discussion, as it is only locate-able through the search feature, on the site and provides an ancestor, with whom I will later this afternoon, make contact with per email on the site, to see what I can turn up. ;-)

http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Archive:The_Ancestry_of_Ev...

I wrote ancestor, but meant, obviously, descendant. :-)))

Thank You Thank You, I do what I can to help

So, John Bray of London is now my 10th GGF; John Bray of Hareby is my 13th GGF & Edward Bray is my 1st cousin something-removed's husband...just when I thought I had this connection figured out! :P

Pretty scary to think we might "Bray" several different ways:)

The London line is (currently) most intriguing to me, but really I'm just thrilled at what we, as a team, have been able to sort out more clearly.

Let's see what else we can find and contribute ....

These discussions are really helpful.

I think that it would be good to have a "cheat sheet" that says if you are researching 17th century British families these three sources are usually reliable and these three sources may not be very reliable. Some very limited number.

This seems to one of the biggest learning hurdles for Geni users, figuring out that many sources are not good and are not based on primary sources such as birth, death, marriage records or Visitations etc.

Clan Irwin has over 240 Different Spellings of the family http://clanirwin.org/history.php

Theresa Renée Eléna Delgado-Tossas
Today at 12:52 AM
Report | Delete
Wanted to add to this thread about reliable sources.

DNA test results, giving Family Finder matches, to certain ancestral lineages, would also, be viewed as "good" sources
Also, especially note, Tudor place and our Royal titles Noble and commoners and find a grave etc. as being iffy sources... and that also, ONLY should/if these entries found there have NO source information attatched to the profile(s) info(s) in question.
Should they have sources, such as birth/death/marriage/registry entries (Church/county/hall of arms etc.)
Then these should also, be considered "good" sources.

Linda, I so know, how you feel about one, "thinking it was almost all figured out.", to find that in fact, some "bum" source was the basis of the "solution"... :-/
But, I believe, it's all the better to have proper and accurate connections, than forced or accidentally inaccurate ones

Yes, Erica it is quite frightening, how many Bray branches may have led down to us!!! :-D

But as it was common practice to keep blood lines (and property) in the "family" and therefore, kissing cousins being quite the norm... are we really, all that surprised?! ;-)

Hatte, yes, a cheat sheet of sorts on the good and bad sources, is possibly a good add for the Geni "Beginners" project/links?

Bill, mind boggling, isn't it?!? :-)