Muriel de Burgo De Copello (de Conteville Burgh)

Started by Private User on Sunday, December 28, 2014
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Private User
12/28/2014 at 7:10 PM

This research is the result of wanting to fix Hamon I de Mascy in time and place for further study. The original thought was that checking him against his parents was all that needed be done, but it turned out to be a lot more complicated, and more interesting. The conclusions reached are that Hamon I de Mascy is not the child of Muriel de Burgo De Copello (de Conteville Burgh), and that Muriel was never married to William de la Ferté-Macé.

The master profile on Geni contributed no material under the source tab. The overview discussion is basically a compilation of three web sites, Wikipedia, WorldConnect Rootsweb, and Massey Family Genealogy by Karen Massey. The statement “Research Notes: The ‘Miss de Conteville’ in several sources may have been Muriel de Conteville” is not found anywhere in source documents. Without looking too hard, one can find verbatim reproductions of this and other statements on Geni throughout the online community of family trees.

The Geni overview makes reference to the Medieval Lands website, a site recognized as a source of information on Norman Nobility, that I myself use, and states “the primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified”, then proceeds to conclude that she “m. GUILLAUME Seigneur de la Ferté-Macé “, and all subsequent sections then provide weak at best sources that intend to substantiate the conclusion of the first section. Note that in the same section in Medieval Lands, the overview on which the identity of Muriel depends, Emma, Muriel’s sister is not spoken of at all. We know, from other primary sources, [fn. 1] that Emma de Conteville is the daughter of Herluin de Conteville, Vicomte de Conteville and Herleva de Falaise. She married Richard le Goz, Vicomte d'Avranches, son of Thurston le Goz, Vicomte d'Hiemes. Children of Emma de Conteville and Richard le Goz, Vicomte d'Avranches include Judith d'Avranches, Hélisende d'Avranches, Hugh d'Avranches, 1st Earl of Chester b. c 1047, d. 27 Jul 1101, and Margaret d'Avranches b. c 1054. This is hugely important due to role that Hugh d'Avranches (Hugh Lupus), 1st Earl of Chester plays in the origins of the Mascy lineage at Dunham.

Muriel de Burgo was the daughter of Herluin de Conteville, Vicomte de Conteville and Herleva de Falaise. [fn. 2] She married Eudo de Capello, Vicomte de la Côtentin. She was buried at Abbey of Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk, England. [fn. 3]. As to whom she did marry, “Muriel married Eudes al Chapel”. [fn. 4] And another; Muriel, she married either William, Count of La Ferté-Macé, or, more probably (my emphasis), Eudo de Capello, Viscount of the Côtentin (it is possible that she had an unnamed sister who married William, Count of La Ferté-Macé…) [fn. 5]

The historical timing that offers much of the source material cited here is the context of 1066, the Norman conquest of England and the Battle of Hastings. It was during this period that the chroniclers William of Malmesbury, William of Portieres, William Jumièges and Orderic Vitalis, and a century later Robert “Master” Wace, all provided contemporary history.

William of Malmesbury (Gesta Regum, p. 333) expressly states that Herluin and Herleva were married before Duke Robert's death in 1035; but Odo, who was their eldest son, was perhaps not born before 1036. Odo's younger brother was Robert of Mortain [q. v.], and he had also two sisters: Muriel, who married Odo cum Capello (Wace, 6026), and another who married the Sire de la Ferté (my emphasis) (Taylor, Translation of Wace, p. 237; Stapleton, Rot. Scacc. Norm. i. p. lxxix). [fn. 6]

Again, from The Conqueror and his Companions by J. R. Planché, when identifying first William’s half-brothers Odo Bishop of Bayeux and Robert Count of Mortain, both were some years younger than William, his mother, Herleva, having married Herluin de Conteville, by whom she had, besides the above sons, two daughters, one named Emma, wife of Richard, Viscount of the Avranches, and mother by him of Hugh, Earl of Chester, and the other named Muriel, who became the wife of Eudo de Capello, or al Chapel. A sister also of Muriel married the Lord of Ferté Mace, whose son William is called in a charter, nephew of Bishop Odo. [fn. 7]

And again, a sister of Odo bishop of Bayeux, and of Muriel, the wife of Eudo cum Capella mentioned before, married the lord of Ferté Mace, as we learn from Mr. Stapleton, and probably assisted at the conquest. [fn. 8]

continued...

Private User
12/28/2014 at 7:13 PM

page 2...

Finally, from The Roman de Rou revealed in verse (Eudo, or, as Wace calls him in a previous portion of his "Roman," Iwun al Chapel,) [fn. 10]

E lwun manda al Chapel,
Ki à fame aveit Muriel,
Soror li dus de par sa mère,
E Herluin aveit à père;
Ne sai se enfez d'els naski,
Mais unkes parler n'en oï.

My thanks to Pam Wilson for the translation, Taylor provides a similar English translation in his translation of the Roman de Rou. [fn. 11]

And he commanded/summoned Iwun al Chapel
who had a wife named Muriel
a sister of the Duke on the part of her mother
and she had Herluin as her father
don’t know the children born of them
But still/yet they are not spoken of.

Eudo, usually styled cum Capello (“du manteau," or "capuchon"), though in a charter of 1074 he subscribes himself Eudo Haldub, married Muriel de Conteville, a half-sister of the conqueror's, who made him his Seneschal. He was one of the principal barons summoned to the council that decided on the invasion of England at Lillebonne, and probably the "Sire de Ia Haye" mentioned by Wace at Hastings, who " charged on and neither spared nor pitied any; striking none whom he did not kill, and inflicting wounds such as none could cure." His services were munificently recompensed; and much of his fortune was given to religious foundations, as de Jumièges cites him "among the most magnificent of the Norman nobles, who signalized themselves by their zeal in building churches." [fn. 12]

Powlett goes on by referencing Sir Francis Palgrave, “Delahay: from the castle and barony of La Haye-du-Puits in La Manche." Hence comes the great Eudo Dapifer, who acquired, whether by force or favour, the largest proportions of robbery, called conquest, in the counties of Sussex, Essex, and Suffolk. They expanded throughout England." [fn. 13] I have yet to discover the timeline for Muriel to relocate from Normandy to England so as to consequently be buried at the Abbey of Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk. This will likely require an analysis of Doomsday and the Visitations and it is my hope that someone else will take this one on.

There are many more sources that demonstrate the marriage of Muriel de Conteville to Eudo al Chapel, but displaying all that I found here would be redundant. During the course of this research I searched just as hard for evidence that Muriel married, or married also, Guillaume de la Ferté-Macé, but found none in solid sources that I would consider with the same level of confidence that argued against this marriage. This conclusion is not the end of the discussion however:

• If the five children “assigned” to Muriel are not hers, to whom then do they belong? William (II) is referred to in Norman Nobility as being of the unknown sister wife of William, however he is usually referred to as William Massey. Norman Nobility also refers to a charter, which it says is unknown, that in addition to William, it refers to her ‘-sons’. This might take into account Mathieu and Hauge de la Ferté-Macé who share the same surname as William. But that leaves Margaret de la Ferté-Macé and Hamon de Mascy unaccounted for.

continued...

Private User
12/28/2014 at 7:14 PM

page 3...

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fn. 1 Lundy, Darryl. The Peerage. Lundy Consulting Ltd., 23 Dec. 2014. Web. 26 Dec. 2014. <http://www.thepeerage.com/&gt;. Note: Mr. Lundy’s source for this information is cited as: G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume III, page 164.

fn. 2 Ibid.

fn. 3 Weir, Alison. "William I." Britain's Royal Families: The Complete Genealogy. London: Bodley Head, 1999. 42. Print.

fn. 4 "William the Conqueror's Half Brothers and Sisters." In Notes and Queries: A Medium of Intercommunication for Literary Men, General Readers, Etc., 525-526. Ninth Series, Vol. VIII. London: John C. Francis, 1901.

fn. 5 Weir, Alison. "William I." Britain's Royal Families: The Complete Genealogy. London: Bodley Head, 1999. 42. Print.

fn. 6 Lee, Sidney, ed. Dictionary of National Biography. Vol. XLI. London: Macmillan, Smith, Elder, 1895. 424. Print.

fn. 7 Planché, J.R. "III. Odo, Bishop of Bayeux." The Conqueror and His Companions. Vol. I. London: Tinsley Brothers, 1874. 88. Print.

fn. 8 Wace, Master. "XXIII. The Roll of the Norman Lords Continued." In Chronicle of the Norman Conquest from the Roman De Rou. New York: Library of Alexandria, 1975.

fn. 10 Wace, Master. "X - How the Barons Met at Lillebonne, and What Aid They Agreed to Give." His Chronicle of the Norman Conquest from the Roman De Rou. Trans. Edgar Taylor, Esq., F.S.A. London: William Pickering, 1837. 101-104. Print.

Fn. 11 "Master Wace." 1066: A Medieval Mosaic. Ed. Michael Linton. Medieval Mosaic Ltd., 1 Jan. 2006. Web. 27 Dec. 2014. <http://www.1066.co.nz/mosaic/index.htm&gt;.

fn. 12 Powlett. Duchess of Cleveland, Catherine Lucy Wilhelmina. "Additional Names Given by Leland." The Battle Abbey Roll: With Some Account of the Norman Lineages. Vol. 3. London: John Murray, Albermarle Street, 1889, 366. Print.

fn. 13 Ibid.

12/28/2014 at 10:11 PM

Tagging the profiles under discussion

Muriel de Conteville

Guillaume de la Ferté-Macé

Hamon de Mascy, 1st Baron of Dunham Massey

and some curators familiar in the area

Private User

Private User

Pam Wilson (on hiatus)

Thank you, David, for your analysis, and posting your findings.

Private User
12/29/2014 at 10:01 PM

Yes, thanks David for doing such excellent research.

3/2/2017 at 8:53 PM

What is interesting is that I have a DNA match with a Comyn of the Conteville, Comyn de Burgh, Burgos line. We share a common grandfather at about 24 generations my line is of the Pontington Massey's.

Private User
5/22/2020 at 11:32 AM

Hello Curt,
Thank you for reading the research, but I’m not sure what your question is. The intent of this research was to see if there was a link between Hamon de Masci, Muriel de Conteville and Guillaume de la Ferte Mace, as many sources imply. I found none, as I stated. By defining Muriels path to England I was not able to confirm or deny a relationship with Guillaume. I made no attempt to determine whether Guillaume was a companion of William as that was irrelevant to the task at had. My sense is that if he was he made an almost immediate return to France as there is evidence that he was active there in 1075. I have yet to make an assessment of his siblings, yet as the tradition for Norman’s was that the elder son received the heritage of France, the younger going to England or elsewhere, Guillaume being in France is not surprising.

What triggered my inquiry was the question as to whether Hamon de Masci was his son, or was Muriels son, and that question remains unanswered. There are as many as three other alternative parents for him as I discuss in further research, that being attached to his profile.

The research is not definitive, as the conclusion states, there are no primary resources which effect it, only the secondary sources listed. It does tend to explain how Muriel died in England. Remember also that there is confusion around whether it was Muriel or an as yet to be identified sister of Muriel who was involved. Here I think the research is conclusive.

I would be interested in hearing how you presumably fit into this descendency and what alternative theories you might have as to the Masci/Massey descendency.

Regarding the photos, the only one I’ve added is that or Muriel de Conteville, and that family has many others. I would recommend that you NOT rely on photos unless documented and sourced. My approach is to use for the female the undifferentiated arms of her father.

Private User
5/23/2020 at 12:49 PM

No problem at all. I think whether or not Guillaume de la Ferte Mace was a companion of William is still an open question of history.

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