Consistency in names and surnames

The general principle followed as far as I know is to use the historically accurate spelling in the Naming Fields, & the modern update (If there is one) in the Display Name.

On the subject of names, I have a question regarding surnames. What would be the historically accurate spelling for " De Bruyn and Le Roux" :)

If it comes to names in the other fields, how does Geni appropriate the names in those fields? Does it even look at the names in those fields? I seriously doubt it. It doesn't even look at the second name field.

Mike Stangel has assured us it does look at Display Name Fields as well as Middle Name Fields if I recall correctly. Let's see if we can get him to assure you here.

Susanna Hendrina Elisa de Bruyn, h2i9j1 what about starting research projects on those two names and getting others to join you finding out. I can set up the Surname projects, if you'd like.

I know that whenI add a variation of a name in the AKA field matches that had not been thrown up before do come up, so I would say yes - it matters what names are added there.

I also believe that the correct procedure is to use where possible names as spelt in documents for that person with variations in the AKA field.

Hi, the reason I ask this is: I receive and email from a person with this.Hi Susanna! A friendly request to make sure that the suffixes (van der / van den / le / du etc.) are spelled in the lower case and not upper case. The Dutch and South African (also French) customs were to spell these surnames in the lower case. The reason that so many surnames (South African or Dutch) are spelled in the upper case fashion, is because it is the algorithmic way the internet works. In the US it is not that much of a problem, because the custom to write the LN'sAB with capitals. Sincerely,

Never Knew it make such a difference.

This is an excerpt from this project:

Using van/Van and de/De etc.

Whether van or Van is used depends on how the surname is written. If only the surname is used, it is Van, for example Van der Merwe family. If the first name is used before the surname it is van der Merwe as in Jan van der Merwe. This is how surnames which have de or van etc. in front of them are written in Afrikaans. In Belgium the lower case van shows nobility. In Holland the lower case is always used. Reference - Leon van Schalkwyk.
With this in mind please use the lower case for all such names (de, la, le, van, von etc.) in the last name and birth name fields, but be mindful when using them in the notes etc.

Thank you very much Donovan. Much appreciated. :)

If it is using the second name field in searches, I wonder why they can't make the simple adjustment to use it in their tree matches as well. At this point I think their tree matches are between 5%-10% accurate with 10% really the high end. I am still of the opinion that Geni's inaccurate tree match algorithm is one of the biggest reasons why people mess it up. They get a suggestion from Geni, and trusting Geni as the guru, they just click. And voila! Another big mess.

I kept statistics of the my success rate on Geni tree matches at one stage and realized that it is just a total waste of time.

I know this thread is about the correct use of names, second names, and surnames, but so is tree matches.

Francois -

One thing to keep in mind is that "matching" is a service offered by the software provider, but "data entry" is done by the profile manager.

So if agreed upon naming conventions are used by profile managers then search & match will always be more accurate.

Erica Howton , I agree about the two different disciplines. It is also true that what you put in, is what you get out. And the two disciplines are the one a function of the other.

No use in having correct data in the correct fields if the software provider does not put it to use correctly. Then it is a futile exercise.

Database management is not just about entering data, it is also about data manipulation, and usage. If you cannot use your data optimally, it is of lesser value.

Then that needs to be addressed with the software provider on a separate discussion.

Francois Cornelius Swart, i3j5 This has been discussed here:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/139530

Mike has recently reaffirmed that they will be updating the Tree Match algorithm shortly..

I have a particular issue with changing surnames in my tree: My GG Grandfather is a Shapling which we have always used and until recently made little progress in developing his ancestors until I discovered that Shaplyn, Shapland, Shaplin and even Shapman (note the possible confusion with the latter with my own surname, Chapman). In my case, the use of alternate spellings between father and even siblings is not uncommon. I have another set of alternates in Diment, Diamond, Dyment, Dimond, etc., ad infinitum - it is not unusual to find parents acknowledging two variations by using another variation as a middle name. At least the D.... sequence is more phonetically similar than the varying consonants of Shapling and Shapland.

In addition to Geni, I use http://familysearch.org a lot for research, this particularly since they have made dramatic advancements to the way that their search mechanism and tree building feature works which appears to give much more flexibility when searching for multiple spellings.

I will be very interested to see official clarification from Geni as to whether and to what extent the 'AKA' and 'Display As' fields contribute to searching.

Slightly digressing, but I would also like an option to be able to have more control whether AKA's are shown in double quotes on some displays within Geni; sometimes I get the impression that this seems to be driven more by .the original profile Managers' preferences than my own....?

Will Chapman (Vol. Curator) When you do a search using the box in the header or on the search page, the name you enter will be matched against both AKA and display name. Our automated tree matches only use the formal name fields, however.

@Mike Stangel, thanks very much for that important clarification.

Regards

Will

We have to be very careful with trying to apply some rules to how to spell last names. A "rule" I like to follow is "the person in the profile knows best how to spell his/her own name". Therefore, in theory, a person's own signature should be the most reliable record of how to spell the name.

For example, with this profile:

Hélène Desportes

there was discussion about how to spell Hélène's last name: "des Portes" or "Desportes". But when we found a signature of hers, we saw that she signed "desportes". Thus we use "Desportes" as last name and "des Portes" in AKA.

But with this other profile:

Donat Desjardins

Donat signed "Degardans". This spelling is incorrect. The correct spelling is "Desjardins". Because I know the village where he lived very well and that in 1900, very few people there knew how to write, in this context, it is extraordinary that Donat could even sign at all. Therefore, we use the correct spelling for his last name and his signature in the AKA.

My point is, for name spelling, we have to use a lot of care. We have to apply sound judgement as amateur genealogists.

Mario, in the French/French-Canadian trees, I also like to put the standardized spelling in the Display name field. For instance, someone could be recognized as Arsenault, Arseneault, Arseneau or Arseneaux. I put in ALL spellings in alphabetical order and then in the display field, I would put Arsenault becuase that would be the standardized spelling for the name according to: http://www.genealogie.umontreal.ca/en/public/rech_nom.asp?N=arseneault

I'd also list all the possible spellings of the first and last name in the person's Also Known As field, so that it is searchable and matchable.

I am an amateur. I learn very quickly. Mario Morel is correct. I have only been on geni 9 months and have seen these gross misspelling discrepencies more times than I can count. There are sometimes more than a handful of profiles of the same person. One or more profiles I am related to and the others, I'm not. They can't be merged without an edit. I have a feeling that there will be a lot less profiles on geni, if this ever gets straightened out. Programming employees of geni could write a path that would scutinize the information and compile what is the most comonly found information from all of the profiles, new and old. It is a simple (if - then) path. Someone may have to decide the correct spellings of profiles, if there is no consistency in the information.
Mario Morel's signature theory would be best in the event that there is no document that proves otherwise.
Thank you all for your efforts in this and other problems like this one. We, the amateurs, rely on you, the professionals.

Mimi, respectfully, I have to disagree with you in one small detail. I think it would be better not to place more than one spelling in the last name field, the birth name field and the display name field (it could be a different spelling for a different field).

The reason I think is that this makes the name fields very heavy and hard to read (there is just too much redundant informaiton displayed that way).

Also, when we use tools to create artistic (visual) family trees by extracting data from Geni (API), those long names with all those spellings make the trees look messy and ugly. It is very tedious to fix trees manually afterword so they look respectable.

Another reason too, it is that for some names, there are so many spellings that it would be just unthinkable to have all of those in one name field. Take my name for example, "Morel", I have seen an accestor of mine associated with all these variations in different documents: "Morel, Morell, Morelle, Morrel, Morrello, Morrill".

I think that, while using our best judgement and the managers working together, we should select only one spelling Inside each of the last/birth/display fields respectively, and insert all the variations in the AKA field.

I agree with you that we should list all the possible spellings of the first and last name in the person's Also Known As field, so that it is searchable and matchable.

Here is our Naming Conventions page, and it asks that is titled from the Wiki as:
PLEASE follow these conventions. This enables us all to work together.

http://wiki.geni.com/index.php/Naming_Conventions

Of course, since our new Multiple Language function, you can now put Anglicized or English names in one field, switch languages, and put in the non-English names in the other fields.

some french canadian name are writen all capitalized letter,

Mon ami Martin, tu te souviens qu'on a eu une longue discussion intense et un petit peu chaude au sujet des majuscules il y a quelques mois. Les normes de Geni sont claires, on ne fait pas de noms tout en majuscule. Ce serait bien si on pourrait éviter d'entrer dans ce sujet encore.

Entièrement raison Mario en ce qui concerne génie mais malheureusement joublie la regle ,merci de me le rappeler : P ceci dit entre nous qui savent lire entre les lignes cela reste une distinction d'un savoir oublier et qui encore doit de se garder à l'intérieur dun secret orthographique

je vais tenter d'etre plus prudent lors de la creation de profile :)

salut

Oui, je te comprend. Je préfèrerais moi-aussi utiliser les conventions qu'on est habitué en français, mais qu'est-ce que tu veux, on ne peut pas faire plaisir à tout le monde.

When I first started working the French-Canadian tree, I didn't pay attention and wasn't following the naming standard. I should have known better.

Capital letter names, non-hyphened names, wrong alphabet, married women with husband's names, etc... I am constantly fixing these problems when I find them. It seems many people can't spell French names or don't understand that married women use their own family name. This is why there are so many duplicates. Things are getting matched because the names are different in other trees.

For profiles with multiple accepted spellings of names, I always list as also known as. I find the most common name use as the primary. Mimi's idea to list all spelling variations in the name field works well also. I can find the duplicates easy like this.

Another problem is dit and dite. Most researchers don't know how to use these and when they use them and use 2 names with a hyphen. Also, many women are listed as "dit" instead of "dite". I can spend all day trying to fix these problems. Wish everyone would fix what is in the tree before they added anymore. I am only trying to add extra people to connect to what is already in there.

I meant that things "are not" getting matched, due to naming errors.

Thank you, Byron Jason Whitesides for all the work you do in fixing names. I appreciate it SO MUCH.