Harman Jansz - Birth date

There is another unnamed? child baptised in 1607

baptism 30-12-1607, father Jan Goossensz, mother Ebbeltjen NN,

Same church as the previous record

parents Ondertrouwregister

http://stadsarchief.amsterdam.nl/archieven/archiefbank/indexen/onde...

09-12-1606 Goossensz, Jan and Hermans, Ebeltje

I think this is where "Dokkum" and "Borkum" come from but to be honest this is beyond my ability to read.

So what location is this and are we in Friesland?

I've asked for help in the Portal reading it but it seems like this is the unreferenced source that people have used.

No evidence as yet that this couple is connected to Auke.

To answer your question, Dokkum is in Friesland but Borkum is in Saxony.

Yes, Wikipedia told me that. Great job finding the primary source. I agree dokkum for both would make more sense but borkum seems possible, yes? As it borders Friesland?

I can't believe there really was a Yfftz!

Well Yfft was a handsome man, it was just a matter of time until there was a Yfftz ;)

I am try to upload the second baptism record that i mentioned above, there is definitely no child's name listed but the date matches Jan Jansz

I'm going to try to find the actual marriage record.

Borkum seems more possible than it did yesterday.

BUT it could just as easily be another "Paris" moment.

With either location there's a real chance this woman's native language was Frisian not Dutch.

No children named "aucke" or anything similar in Amsterdam baptised to a father named Jan Goosens or anything similar between 1600 and 1636

So we have a couple from Friesland who get married in Amsterdam and have two children there in the following 5 years.

We then have a profile for another son allegedly born in Amsterdam, which we know is wrong.

We then have a profile for a fourth son, who we are guessing was born in Groningen, but we at least know for certain was not born in Amsterdam.

The only link between Auke and this family that i can see is his patronymic, "Johnson". It's hardly compelling evidence.

It's not enough for me to break the connection.

The only link is a bunch of online trees that give no references.

I assume you saw this http://www.geni.com/discussions/142453

Alex

I think you know I am quick to disconnect impossible parent connections. This parent connection is under sourced but not impossible (so far).

I would not expect Bergen's records or a record of first settlers to reference parents in Europe.

There very well may be family research and genealogical articles on these families; the NYGBR would be the most likely journal to cover this area.

Also I would be reluctant "for" the proposed disconnect without feedback from descendants, and with them having a chance to interpret the research for themselves.

One way is to generate an email selecting the "descendants of" option. I haven't tried that myself but I think it works well.

And one of the online trees found seemed to be a serious research effort, so the link seemed to be more than "wishful thinking."

I hope you dont mean this one:

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=norva...

and if you would not expect Bergen's records or a record of first settlers to reference parents in Europe why are two of his books listed in the About of that profile as "sources"? Adding them makes the profile look legit when it isnt

No, this is the researcher

http://acreetree.net/fam00354.htm

Alex - the compiler I quoted as a link called them sources, not me. I'm not the researcher, manager, compiler ... Just contributing what I can to assist your efforts. But as said, I balk at too hasty a disconnect "in this case."

I think thats a cop out Erica, putting info into the About suggests an implicit agreement by who ever puts it there. Even more so when it is an MP.

I really do appreciate working with you but i dont want to be silently complicit in propagating internet fantasy genealogy. I hope u dont feel like i am trying to force a disconnect u dont want to do,i'm happy to voice my concerns here and leave it at that, should anyone ever bother to look in this branch again they'll have a good starting point.

As usual i wasn't even actually intending to look at this family! :)

I am suggesting that there is more research to be done, starting perhaps with what genealogists could have had to say about these families.

http://newyorkfamilyhistory.org/research-discover/public-dashboard2 could produce some results.

Feel free to edit the overview to wording that suits better.

This "particular" case is "not" fantasy. The compiler I cited has been doing genealogy since 1978. That alone gives me pause.

Here's a famil that Bergen wrote a whole book about!
Pieter Janszoon van Haagswout of course m personal interest is their Dutch roots.

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL7228664M/Genealogy_of_the_Lefferts_....

They became the Lefferts but started as Hagewout and are from the same province as my Hagewout family.

I've emailed Norvan, the creator of that rootsweb page to ask (nicely) about the other two sources he lists, the page was edited in August so he's still active.

Found this in New Amsterdam records:

1673 29 Jul; Jan Auckesze Nuys, jm van Amsterdam; Barber Provoost, jd van N. Jorck

So Aucke's son thinks of Amsterdam as home... which strengthens the link to this family but weakens the theory that Aucke is from Nuis.

Very nice find !

I'm pretty sure Mr. Norvan was using the research of Mr Acree (forgive, I'm going off memory at the moment), so he would direct you to the owner of the Acree site, who did not list the Amsterdam connection ... Nor did he deny it. And if I remember the arguments for derivation of the Van Nuys name correctly, the idea (not sure if proven) was that the immigrant ancestor was "from" Nius; not necessarily that he was born there.

I got an email from Charles Acree last night.
In essence there is only circumstantially evidence for the parental relationship.

I added that comment to the profile for Aucke Janse van Nuys

OK, just found Jan's baptism... in Amsterdam.
Gives a spelling variation for the mother which may prove helpful.

Shows us that Aucke was in Amsterdam, but interestingly he did not attend the same church as his "parents".

and Truijtje
and Jannetje
both in Amsterdam, 1647 and 1648.
different church again so could indicate Aucke is renting?

Aucke spells his name "Aucke Janson".

Unfortunately that's about all i can make out - Maggie is illiterate.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-31144-5979-8?cc=20379...

Private User could u take a look at the above link please... it's all double dutch to me!

The date for Anneken Aukes Waertman birth makes sense but the location does not.
I have searched Amsterdam archives for 1645 and 1646 based on "anneken", "aucke" and "magdalena" and spelling variations, nothing there.

Lisbet Janse van Rhenen DOB must be wrong, there is only 18 months between Truijtje and Jannetje so no chance of another baby in that time frame. Also location is NY.

Bergen states 4 children born in Nld, we have Truijtje, Jannetje and Jan with possibly time between the last two for another, but which? Anneken?

stared at it for a while:

http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000028997184121

It's a real stretch but he could be from "Dorkum" and she from "Alkmaar".

Which would raise the question, did Jan and Ebelken move back to his home town after first two kids, hence lack of Aucke's baptism in Amsterdam?