Sir John le Blount, Kt. - John le Blount - too many wives

Started by Erica Howton on Tuesday, July 8, 2014
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From [http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=69516 Slektsforum -> Slektsfaglige diskusjoner -> Nyhetsgrupper (arkiv) -> Fora der du MÅ skrive engelsk -> soc.genealogy.medieval -> Mountjoy family - ancestors of the Blounts] 18 Feb 2008 Nathaniel Taylor:
   

Ah--but here the earlier sources (followed by Coll. Hist. Staffs.) seem
to be in error, which has since been corrected by CP (s.n. Mountjoy).
As CP shows, Sir John Blount (d. 1358) can only be shown to have had one
wife, Isolda de Mountjoy. Older sources assign him a second wife,
Eleanor Beauchamp (of Hache) who is made to be the mother of his younger
sons (including the one whose descendants took the peerage title
'Mountjoy'). On the alleged Blount-Beauchamp marriage, an article by
Cecil R. Humphery-Smith, "The Blount Quarters," _The Coat of Arms_ 4
(1957), 224-27, is corrected by G. D. Squibb, "The Heirs of Beauchamp of
Hatch," ibid., pp. 275-77, showing that the particular claimed marriage
cannot have happened.

More importantly, Isolda is documented as still wife of Sir John Blount
in 1352, well after the apparent birth year of Walter, ancestor of the
lords Mountjoy. Croke (in his Blount work back in 1823) quoted the 1352
charter but didn't realize the chronological implication, repeating the
two-wife fallacy.

I think the origin of the fallacious marriage is that the Blounts
quartered a chequy coat (like Beauchamp of Hache) whose origin was a
mystery for quite some time.

================

Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy,Vol. Curator you've done some work on this family - help sorting it appreciated.

@Sir John le Blount Kt is my second cousin 20 times removed i am showing 3 wives Lady Eleanor de Beauchamp, Elizabeth Blount @ Isolda de Mountjoy http://www.geni.com/path/Judy-Rice+is+related+to+Sir-John-le-Blount... this is my link Judy Rice

Sir John le Bount, Kt. is my 17th great grandfather. Isolda de Mountjoy is my 17th great grandmother. I also see Eleanor de Beauchamp and Elizabeth Blount as wives of Sir John.

Erica Howton I have placed what I could find on John Blount on his profile.

Unless the death date of Isolda de Mountjoy is not listed correctly on the references it seems she died in 1347 before the son Walter (m. Sancha de Ayala) & Thomas were born.

Several references list that Sir John Blount had more then one son named Walter, the son of Isolda dying d.s.p.. None of John Blount's children inherited property from the Beauchamp's because Eleanor's son from her first marriage Sir John Meriet received it. Sir Walter acquired the Mountjoy estates from his brother Sir John.

Are there any other references that agree with what is listed at "[http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=69516 Slektsforum -> Slektsfaglige diskusjoner -> Nyhetsgrupper (arkiv) -> Fora der du MÅ skrive engelsk -> soc.genealogy.medieval -> Mountjoy family - ancestors of the Blounts] 18 Feb 2008 Nathaniel Taylor:" ?

It looks the like the death date for Isolda is incorrect on some sources:

"More importantly, Isolda is documented as still wife of Sir John Blount
in 1352, well after the apparent birth year of Walter, ancestor of the
lords Mountjoy. ..."

But I'm going to look into Eleanor de Beauchamp.

This is a 2011 comment from a researcher:

http://www.brownsociety.org/browngen/65584.htm

"Last year I obtained the pages from Complete Peerage, Vol IX, which show the Blount line from William le Blund [le Blount] who d. 1280. The line shows that William's grandson, John le Blount, m. Isoude [Isolda] Mountjoy. Walter le Blount who m. Sancha de Ayala is clearly shown as the 3rd son of John and Isoude."

This is the CP he refers to:

http://www.lamartin.com/genealogy/complete_peerage_blount.htm

Citation: THE COMPLETE PEERAGE: OR A HISTORY OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND ALL ITS MEMBERS FROM THE EARLIEST TIMES By G. E. C[okayne]. Revised and Much Enlarged. Edited by H. A. Doubleday and Lord Howard de Walden. Volume IX "Moels to Nuneham" London The St. Catherine Press Stamford Street S.E. 1936. Page 331:

JOHN LE BLOUNT, 2nd s. of Walter and Joan abovenamed, was in 1324 a practised soldier belonging to Worcestershire.(d) In 1337, being then a knight, he was found heir to elder brother, Wiliam Blount [Lord Blount].

(e) He was joint commissioner in Worcestershire in 1344, to inquire as to holders of land.
(f) He served in Gascony under Henry, Earl of Lancaster, and afterwards, 1347, under the King at the siege of Calais, till Edward's return to England.
(g) In Oct. 1350 he was undertaking a pilgrimage to Santiago.
(h) He m. Isoude.
(i) He d. in 1358.
(j)

 

Footnotes from CP 1936:

(i) According to tradition, Isoude de Mountjoy. The mystery of her parentage has not been solved. The release by John le Blount in 1374 to his brother Walter of all his rights in lands in Gayton, Yeldersley, Brushfield, &c. (Croke, op. cit., vol. ii, p. 171), which were Mountjoy manors in the 13th and 14th centuries (Jeayes, Derbyshire Charters, no. 1608, et seq.), suggests that a portion of the Mountjoy estates had descended by inheritance to John, then eldest surviving son of John le Blount and Isoude. It was a portion only, because (i) Gayton and Yeldersley, &c, descended through the marriage of Isoude (da. and h. of Serle de Mountjoy, s. and h. of Ralph de Mountjoy) to Robert de Ireland (Plac. de Quo Warranto, p. 155); the family of Ireland were still holding temp. Henr VII (Feudal Aids, vol. i, p. 250 et seq.; Jeayes, op. cit., no 2731); (ii) the receipt given by Madam Wake in 1359 for evidences belonging to Richard Blount, the young heir of John and Isoude, refers to vint oyt feetes en un boist del heritage le mere le dit Richard et ses parceners des tenements en le Pek, &c. (Harl. MS. 6709, fo. 119 d).

(j) Cal. Inqu. p. m., vol. x, no. 431, his s. and h. Richard being then aged 13.

Now this is difficult reading for me, but I see only one wife & mother of children, from a 1936 study & 2008 & 2011 interpretations by medievalists?

my family records I've had since 1993 Sir John le Blount has children by two of his lover he was only married to Isolda de Mountjoy Eleanor Beauchamp my grandma was his lover so was Elizabeth if anyone was proof they were married please add it records I've seen shows he only had one wife and two lovers my grandpa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Blount_(soldier) was born years before John married Isolda de Mountjoy and Walters mother was Eleanor Beauchamp hope this info helps

Shawna - that sheds a lot of light, thank you!

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