Iorwerth ab Owain, prince in Wales, lord of Caerleon - Birth date

I think i've made a bad merge here, too tired to sort it out tonight.

Jason Scott Wills

I located a reference to Iorwerth ab Owain being Nesta's father, which seemed reasonable so i created a profile fo him and then found another welsh king named Iorwerth ab Owain from the same time period and merged the two men, how many "Iorwerth ab Owain, lord of Caeleon" could thee possibly be?

So anyway the merge was a mistake but now i can't disconnect the relationship because it will "split the tree". I tried making another father but that didnt help.

LOL

Found him eventually!

Iorwerth ab Owain Wan, prince in Wales, lord of Caerleon, it doesn't help that "ap" and "ab" seem to be interchangeable :P

Jason Scott Wills

managed to fix the original bad merge

On ap versus ab -- it's ap if the father's name begins with a consonant, ab if it begins with a vowel.

Very similar and fairly universal linguistic rule. BGD and PKT are pairs. The B and P for example are articulated at the same place and in the same way. These are called "stops". The only difference is that the BGD are "voiced stops" meaning that the vocal cords vibrate when they are produced. A voiceless stop between two vowels ends up being voiced since vowels all involve the vocal cords vibrating.

I probably assumed the "underlying form" was ap and always spell it ap myself :)

I have no idea what that all means, Hatte. Luckily my education stretched to consonants and vowels!

I figured one should never pass up a teachable moment.

In Hebrew these are the famous beged kefet consonants.

Jason Scott Wills

I have cleaned up the tee between Rhydderch ap Iestyn, King of Deheubarth and Morgan ap Hywel, lord of Caerleon. For the earlier generations i had to rely on Wikipedia, i know i know, but for later i used the Oxford Dictionary.

Now I have found another source http://welshleigh.org/genealogy/prichardancestry/prichardhistorical... which backs up everything so far but on Morgan's successor there is a difference of opinion.

Geni's tree currently reflects the welshleigh website but i have more confidence in Oxford which states:

"He was childless, and was succeeded by Maredudd ap Gruffudd, who in one source appears to have been the descendant of Iorwerth ab Owain through Gwerfyl, the daughter of his youngest son, Morgan, but who could also conceivably have been the son of Gruffudd ab Iorwerth ab Owain."

The "He" is Morgan ap Hywel, lord of Caerleon but the "Morgan" referred to is his uncle, i think it would be easy for someone to mistake the two Morgans resulting in the other tree.