Elinor (Bray) - Parents of Elinor (Ellen) Whitney (Bray)

The only parent i see listed is Yhomas and it appears no one knoe's who the mother was.

Theresa Renée Eléna Tossas-Cox believes that the information in Tudor Place (where this comes from) is unverified. I'm looking for sources for Elinor's father which would support Tudor Place or refute it.

After some research, I think I see sufficient evidence to refute Thomas Bray as the father of Elinor on the Whitney Research Group site: Thomas's death date here on geni is currently December 6th, 1615 which is the day his father's will was proven (and Mary was his father's only surviving child at the time of his death - Act Book - http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Archive:Westminster_Probat... ). On the WRG site, Thomas is listed as having died 45 years before his father's death. Thomas Bray, baptized 29 Nov 1562, St. Margaret, Westminster, buried 22 Mar 1569/70, St. Margaret. I think someone has mistaken Thomas for his father John at some point and then tried to reconcile the family tree with a first cousin marriage as the result.

links and sources as evidence that Thomas son of John Bray didn't die on 6 Dec 1615 as stated here: http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Bray,_John_(s1525-1...

MaYBE he died a few months befire her death! This does happen/ Husband dies leaving behind pregnant wife.

Or maybe she died before him or maybe she was disowned. Lots of reasons why not mentioned in a will.r will waas drawn up before her birth and he never got around to changing it.

living cooley. Noted his desth dste id not written in stone. It was stated in link posted he died before that date. More then likely that date was when his will was proven or perhapes his wife had remarried by then. We see this a lot in record before or after. At the time this was entered Geni didn't give a person before or after .So people didn't have the choise of that referrence.I beleave now you have that option.Not sure woill have to check that out.But any rate Elinor had died way before that date . So ocourse she wouldn't be mentioned in his will.

Strike that part about her birth date as her death.

date . Dah!

Judith, take a closer look at the page referenced. I am talking about a father and son relationship - Thomas and John. John's son Thomas died as a child; his date and place of burial are given on the WRG site. On Geni, we have his date of death listed as 45 years later - on the the exact day his father's will was proved. At the time of Thomas's father John's death, John's daughter Mary (married to Thomas Whitney) was his only surviving child. Therefore, Thomas was not alive when his father's will was proven and was not the executor of his father's will. Therefore, his date of death on geni (which is unsourced) is clearly incorrect and also is fairly obviously (to me at least) a mistaking of his father's date of death based on the day his father's will was proved. Therefore, we have an unsourced person with an incorrect date of death (who other evidence indicates died as a child) listed as the father of Elinor. There is no sourced evidence anywhere to be found which indicated that Elinor was the daughter of a Bray, much less that she was the daughter of Thomas, the brother of Mary (sole surviving child at the time of her father's death) who (Elinor) then married her first cousin. It's all a house of cards based on no sources, names and dates which match other family members and is contrary to sourced evidence. My vote is that Elinor's father being Thomas Bray is refuted. If you still believe her father was a Thomas Bray, I strongly encourage you to come up with some referenced source which supports that belief.

I agree, with Mr. Cooley, on these points of verification and refuting, regarding Elinor Whitney.
I too, am very willing and open to any substantial source, however.
And yes, Tudor Place has no certification, documentation or verification.
It is a privately run site, with no sources, for this entry... Millennium Files from ancestry are the same type of personal and non- sourced, for her profile.
Thank you, for the discussion on her! :-*

xoxoxoRenée

I meant strick what I said about birth and death. I had miss read it,

PS I know what you are talking about Mr.Cooley.

So, how do we proceed, Cousins? Wait a bit to see if someone can earth up a documented parentage for Elinor? And then, if not and if necessary, cut her from the BRAY tree?

I'll check my hard copy LDS records, they are my ancestors, be right back

LDS records say Mary Bray as mother, Thomas Whitney as father b. ca. 1563 at Lambert Marsh, Surrey, England. Married Mary Bray May 12, 1583. Thomas buried April 15, 1637.
There may be more info on Elinors mother in some other LDS records I have, I'll flip through them.....

Additional LDS info: Mary Bray's father is John Bray , will probated Dec. 6, 1615 at Somerset House.

Mary Bray has an ID # of 35760 on the LDS records from 1997

Mary Bray # 35760
B. May 12, 1583
M. May 12, 1583
D. Sep. 25, 1629
Spouse: Thomas Whitney # 35752

I left out all the " sealed to the Church " stuff, but it was done at St. Margaret's, W., England

Her father and mother are also here, as well as Thomas' clan.

If you ever need a source for someone on my tree, I have 1,000 pages of LDS records for my family.

Hey Thanx, Pam!!!

Yeah, Elinor is the one, that we need the parents on.
<3

Elinor Bray. Not Elinor Whitney, daughter of Mary Whitney (BRAY) and Thomas Whitney, Gent., who I believe, you were referring to.

No chance your LDS Church Records would happen to have parents listed for Thomas Whitney who married Mary Bray? (It´s a big Mystery, for him, too... parents.)

Scratch, the Elinor Bray line past the last message above... I meant Elinor Whitney (maiden name unknown but often listed as BRAY) is who´s parents we´re looking to verify, first and foremost, in this thread.
;-)

Elinor Whitney

I am uncomfortable with LDS records for older ancestors. I prefer NEGHS articles by well known genealogists. The problem with LDS is that they are not vetted or sourced with family Bible or historical records. They are often based on personal family trees and we all know that there are thousands of erroneous family trees out there for these early American families.

NEGHS (New England Genealogical and Historical Society) online does not have ANY FURTHER information about the parents of Elinor Whitney, wife of John Whitney.

I'll also look at Google books and other sources but I'm inclined to disconnect, based on best practices here on Geni, which are to not leave in place unsourced, unproven connections.

Look for the will referenced

Additional LDS info: Mary Bray's father is John Bray , will probated Dec. 6, 1615 at Somerset House.

Cool. That IS good evidence.

Yes! The LDS records aren't "proper" proving. The Will, and similar references are. Since, the will was mentioned, I was just hoping maybe yet, another entry or two, might be sourced. ;-)