Kuniza de Bourgogne - Father?

Started by Alex Moes on Thursday, June 12, 2014
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Medlands says this for her on the BURGUNDY page:

A relative of Rudolf III King of Burgundy, the precise relationship is unknown:

1. KUNIZA . She is recorded in Europäische Stammtafeln as neptis of RUDOLF III King of Burgundy[245] but the primary source on which this statement is based has not yet been identified. 1038. m GERHARD [I] Graf von Egisheim, son of HUGO [VIII] Graf im Nordgau und zu Egisheim & his wife Heilwig --- (-killed in battle 1038).

The explanation on the ALSACE page (her husband's family) is sightly differently worded:

m KUNIZA, neptis of RUDOLF III King of Burgundy, daughter of ---. She is recorded in Europäische Stammtafeln as neptis of RUDOLF III King of Burgundy[232] but the primary source on which this statement is based has not yet been identified.

My limited Latin vocabulary (aka Google) tells me neptis=grand daughter

Now everybody knows that Rudolf had no children and was the last of the Burgundian kings!

But Medlands also says:

The name of King Rudolf's mistress is not known. King Rudolf had one illegitimate child by Mistress (1):
a) HUGUES (-31 Aug 1038). The Gesta Episcoponum Lausannensium records the death "II Kal Sep" of "Hugo Lausannnensis episcopus, filius regis Rodulfi", specifying that he was elected Bishop of Lausanne in 1019, held the post for 19 years, and was buried next to his father in Lausanne Cathedral[235]. The Catalogi Abbatum Sancti Eugendi Iurensis names "Rudolfi regis Teutonum et in partibus Galliarum…per Burchardum fratrum suum archiepiscopum et per filium Hugonem Gebennensem episcopus et alium Hugonem Gebennensem episcopum et Rotbertum comitem Gebennensem" with the date 1020[236]. The cartulary of Notre-Dame de Lausanne records the death "II Kal Sep" of "Hugo Lausannensis episcopus filius regis Rodulfi" after holding the bishopric for 19 years[237]. The necrology of Lausanne records the death 31 Aug of "dns Hugo episcopus Laus. filius regis Rodulphi"[238].

So Rudolph had at least one son.

So could Rudolph III, King of Burgundy's illegitimate son Hugo von Burgund, Bishop of Lausanne be Kunzia's father?

I want to read this again when my mind is fresher, but one point that might help -- in classical Latin neptis means granddaughter but in medieval Latin it had acquired the secondary meaning of niece (and maybe, arguably, sometimes just kinswoman).

Strange but true. I've heard several explanations, but none of them make sense to me.

There are many, many medieval genealogies that turn on trying to figure out whether nepos/neptis means a grandchild or a nephew/niece or something else.

Here's a nifty shortcut to add to your bag of tricks. Whenever you see an academic using the word without translating it, you can be pretty sure they don't know which one it means ;)

MedLands is telling you, politely, that they don't have a clue.

Possible duplicate Kuniza

Two MPs that need to be merged

http://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000002135536827?return=duplic...

They are currently shown as brothers but they are in fact both Gerhard I

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