Nicholas Wyatt - Whose son is he, really?

Will it mess up anybody else's lines if he's NOT a son of Rev. Haute Wyatt? Or is he strictly my problem?

In profile view there is a hyperlink to "View All."

Clicking it opens up a "list" view of the family group.

Then the filter on the left, Group, drop down, "descendants," Update list button.

Result: Over 5,000 profiles (max for Geni to count)

For these 1st arrivers to America in the 1600s I think we have an obligation to -

- document as completely as possible
- accept that what isn't known at this time just isn't known
- raise a discussion with a proposal
- ensure a hyperlink to (possible / widely seen) parent profiles is easily navigated to from the profile overview
- give it a few days for profile managers & descendants to see the discussion
- have a curator available to back up proposals using the MP tool & curator note tool

So far the research you've done doesn't support, for me, anything other than "we don't know who his parents were.".

I'm also tagging Private User to come take a look.

What we KNOW is that Nicholas was *not* at Boxley, Kent in 1639, and *not* under the care of "grandma" Lady Jane Finch. She would have listed him if he was - she was trying to get reimbursement for (grand)childcare.

But if he wasn't at Boxley...where was he? There is no record of a Nicholas Wyatt, of any age, anywhere in the Americas prior to his sudden appearance in Anne Arundel, Maryland in 1649 with a wife and a little girl (who was hers, but may not have been his) in tow. They are said to have come "up from Virginia", but left no paper trail.

We do know that Sir Francis Wyatt went to Virginia for his first term as Royal Governor from 1621 to 1624, and that he brought his wife, children, and servants - and his brother, Rev. Haute Wyatt (who apparently did NOT bring his family, as they have not been found on any list of Virginia residents). Men of the cloth...are still men, and have been known to stray. But if the good Rev. fell into "sinful" ways and had a "woods colt" circa 1621-1624, he did not bring the child back with him.

Unfortunately Y-DNA will never solve this riddle - Nicholas had only one son, who died before reproducing.

Erica Howton Private User speaking of problems that richard sears mess that's a problem for all of us.. i've put this line is not valid due to fraud on the family of john sears the 2nd but sorting out the mess well that's not just my problem it's all of us... i don't know where we are going to go from here other then just the usual this line is a load of crap notes in the overview

Off-topic, Michael, please. Not that there haven't been attempts to foist descendants on the Haute Wyatt line - Y-DNA is beginning to expose some of the problems.

One of the problems exposed by Y-DNA studies is that we're not even sure which is the "true line". There is a promising cluster involving a "Conquest Wyatt" (the name of Edward Wyatt's son - and Edward was definitely a son of Rev. Haute Wyatt) and two different "John Wiatt"s, with a second cluster suggesting relationship at some remove (i.e. before Rev. Wyatt's time). These all test I-M253, which has been found in association with Norman ancestry (not exclusively, but often enough to be an indicator).

A line claiming descent from Rev. Hawte Wyatt tested R-P311 (formerly R1b1a2a1a, a very common R1b variant). This type is *too* common to be indicative of anything.

Another line claiming descent from "Sir Thomas Wyatt" (Rev. Wyatt's grandfather or great-grandfather) short-tested (only 11 markers) R-M269. This one is in close association with a cluster that tested more markers and had a result of R-M222 (the "Northwest Ireland" modal type loosely associated with the Ui Niall/O'Neill clans). The divergence is far too great for this one to be related to the previous line within the last thousand or so years - so only one, or perhaps neither, can be valid.

And of course perhaps *none* of them are....

Complicating the question is the sporadic appearance of Wyatts (almost certainly not related to the Gov or the Rev) in early Virginia:

Thomas Wyatt, nail maker, Eastern Shore, fl. 1630s, mentioned in one will in 1633 (along with his nails and the testator's dog), and named as executor of another in 1636. Miles Files: http://espl-genealogy.org/MilesFiles/site/p837.htm#i83688

Ralph Wyatt, leased lands on the Appomattox River, 1636; petitioned the Crown for services rendered, 1639. The William and Mary Quarterly, Volume 10, p. 59.

Richard Wyatt, patented lands in Gloucester County 1645, deceased by 1666 (son Thomas re-patented 500 acres). The William and Mary Quarterly, Volume 10, p. 59.

Christopher Wyatt, York County, age 26 in 1672. The William and Mary Quarterly, Volume 10, p. 59.

John Wyatt, c. 1680-before 1 November 1737, Accomack Co, VA, will probated on the latter date, two sons identified (William Wyatt "Sr." and Littleton(!) Wyatt Sr). Miles Files: http://espl-genealogy.org/MilesFiles/site/p813.htm#i81247

Turns out there's a HOWLING error with regard to Anthony Wyatt and son Nicholas - they're not of Prince George's County, MD, but Prince George, VA! (This is near where Richmond, VA now is.) William and Mary Quarterly, Ser. 1, Vol. 10, No. 4 (July 1903), p. 261: (5) Anthony Wyatt was a member of the House of Burgesses for Charles City county in 1645, 1653, and 1656. He lived at Chaplin's Choice, near Jordan's Point in that part of Charles City county, now called Prince George. This place in 1619 was the plantation of Capt. Isaac Chaplin, who represented it in the first House of Burgesses. More background here: http://genforum.genealogy.com/wyatt/messages/5397.html

What a can of worms....

I decided the two Nicholases needed to be distinguished by primary residence - modified Display field accordingly. Probably they should be MPed also.

That tradition about Nicholas Wyatt "of Anne Arundel" being a Dissenter who turned Quaker is a point against his being a son of Rev. Haute Wyatt (Church of England) and in favor of his having some connection with Devonshire (the West Country had a lot of Dissidents).

I haven't looked at this page yet in any detail but I like his list of sources. Hope it's of some use for this study

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~scperkins/hwyatt....

That's a good source for ancestors of Rev. Wyatt, but the problem at hand is descendants.

The linked page, http://www.lamartin.com/genealogy/wyatt.htm , is one of the sources I consulted. I also checked the "Living and Dead" list (Sir Francis Wyatt, his wife Margaret, and his brother the Rev. are listed, but no children for either and no wife for the Rev - OTOH the entire Yeardly family is listed, wife, children and all) and the 1624/25 Muster (Lady Margaret and the Rev. aren't on it, but Sir Francis is, with a small staff - consensus is he was assisting with the transfer of office back to Sir George Yeardley).

My guess is that Sir Francis sent his wife and brother ahead to start sorting out the family estate (his father George Wyatt had died in 1624, and Sir Francis was the heir).

I still haven't figured out how come Rev. Wyatt's wife has two first names. At a wild guess his Oxford education might have something to do with it - "Barbara, Celarent, Darii, Ferio..." is part of a mnemonic for a series of syllogisms, which would certainly have been part of the curriculum. Maybe "Barbara" was a nickname?

"In England [the name Barbara] became rare after the Protestant Reformation, but it was revived in the 19th century."

So I'm having trouble thinking it was her christened name.

Ah ha

3 wives?

                                                                        1.  To Barbara Mitford in 1619
                                                                        2.  To Elizabeth who died in 1626
                                                                        3.  To Ann, who died in 1632.

http://www.jamestowne-wash-nova.org/Ancestors/HauteWyatt.htm

 References:

1. “Adventures in Purse and Person Virginia 1607-1624/5”, 4th Edition; Vol. 3; by John Frederic Dorman, Genealogical Publishing Company, Baltimore, MD, 20007.

2.Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 32 pp177,180; Vol. 23 pp 429-30; Vol. 26 p 316.

3.William and Mary Quarterly (Series 1) Vol. 12 pp 34-38 April 2010

William & Mary Quarterly has 2 wives - 1) Elizabeth 2) Anna

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x000238898;skin=mobile#pa...

More notes on descendants on this page

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x000238898;skin=mobile#pa...

No Nicholas Wyatt's anywhere. Not one.

This Barbara or Elizabeth is rather curious.

Barbara Wyatt

I wonder what her tombstone "really" says in the Wyatt monument as per http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&GRid=41897288&...;

And I don't think she was a Mitford of Northumberland unaccountably born in Boxley, Kent?

This is the Robert Mitford (her supposed father) family

http://www.bpears.org.uk/Ancestors/S26.html#F3032

Sex: M. Born: 1551. Died: Abt Sep 1611. Buried: 7 Sep 1611. "of Seghill, son and heir." Aged 20 years and four months at the date of his father's inquisition. Administration of his personal estate 17 January 1611/12.

He has a daughter Barbara

Barbara Mitford
Sex: F. Unmarried at 5 July 1623.

And therefore not dying in childbirth on 31 Oct 1626 in Boxley, Kent, England

As per http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=gnews...

(just one example)

Now to answer - what does it say in the Wyatt tomb? - there is an (entertaining) answer here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dotsfamilypage/do...

Extracting ...

Monument 1702

"To the Memory of Sr HENRY WIAT of ALINGTON CASTLE Knight Bannert descended of that Ancient family who was imprisoned and tortured in the Tower in the reign of KING RICHARD the third kept in the Dungeon where fed and preserved by a Cat. ..."

(sorry, I can never resist that story)

"...GEORGE WIAT left also HAWT WIAT who died Vicar of this Parish and hath Issue Living in VIRGINIA ..."

Nothing about any wives - Barbara, Elizabeth, and / or Anna.

Who wasn't a Mitford of Northumberland ...

A bit more about 3 wives or 2 here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/eZ...

It's looking like

1) Barbara Mitford
2) Elizabeth (unknown)
3) Anna (unknown)

Now - where the Mitford of Sedghill error come from, Ancestral Roots?

Yes

[S50917195287] Plantagenet Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists, David Faris, (Genealogical Publishing County, Baltimore, MD, 1996), 1st ed, pp 286-289 "Wyatt".
Barbara Mitford

[S50917195287] Plantagenet Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists, David Faris, (Genealogical Publishing County, Baltimore, MD, 1996), 1st ed, pp 286-289 "Wyatt".
his 1st m, 2 sons

Just putting in Douglas Richardson's details:

I show that Rev. Hawte Wyatt married in the parish of St. Mary Mounthaw, London 6 Feb. 1618/9 to his first wife, Barbara Mitford.

Rev. J. Cave-Brown's History of Boxley Parish Registry only lists two wives for Hawte Wyatt. As I recall, this work records the burial records of Hawte Wyatt's second wife, Elizabeth, in 1626, and his third wife, Anne, in 1632. There is no mention of his first wife, Barbara, at all.

If Mr. Bateman assumes the second wife, Elizabeth, is the same person as Rev. Wyatt's first wife, Barbara Mitford, he must explain why he thinks her name in the burial record was recorded in error, especially since she was the vicar's own wife.

Well, this is a bit unfortunate:

Along with the majority of the 97 parish churches in the City of London, St Mary Mounthaw was destroyed by the Great Fire in September 1666.[4] In 1670 a Rebuilding Act was passed and a committee set up under Sir Christopher Wren to decide which would be rebuilt.[5] St Mary Mounthaw was not one of those chosen; instead the parish was united with that of St Mary Somerset, and the site retained as a graveyard.[2]

Supposedly the parish registers did survive, though in what form is unknown, nor is how much information was lost (Familysearch access starts in 1711).

Found and checked the "Allegations for Marriage Licences Issued by the Bishop of London" covering 1611-1828, Harleian Society, London, 1887. Neither a Barbara nor an Elizabeth Mitford (one Sara, in 1698); three Wiats (Catherine, George, Henry), two Wiatts (Anne, John), and two Wyats (Joan, John). No Hant, Haute, or Hawt Wyatt or any variation thereof. 45 references to St. Mary Mounthaw, so that parish *was* covered.

I don't know where Mr Richardson found his "proof", but it wasn't in the list of marriage licenses.

The group of three Wiats refers to one entry, on page 67, for Dec 8, 1618: Henry Wiat, Gent., of Gray's Inn, Bach'r, son of George Wiat, Esq., of Boxley, Kent, & Catherine Finch, of St. Andrew's, Holborn, Sp'r, 26, dau. of Sir Henry Finch, Kt., of Serjeants Inn, Fleet Street, who consents; at St. Andrew Wardrobe. [Right family, wrong names.]

Anne and John are on page 17, Dec 23, 1612: John Wiatt, Yeoman, & Anne Harvey, widow of William Harvey; at St. Olave's, Silver Street, London. [Wrong family.]

Tried the Canterbury records too - they're missing *everything* from Oct 1575 to Sept 1631.

Familysearch.org says there is a record, but they provide no image and no source information beyond their own cataloging. And they have been known to take "say-so" at face value.

I think this one *is* a "say-so" record - there is nothing for Rev. Wyatt's known last wife, Anne Cox (however her last name was spelled). No marriage record for any Elizabeth, of any last name.

Well now, *this* is interesting:

Barbara Mydforde
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 2 April 1594 SAINT SWITHIN,WORCESTER,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
father: Phill. Mydforde

Elizabeth Mytford
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 13 February 1601 SAINT HELEN,WORCESTER,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
father: Phillip Mytford

Worcester is still a pretty far hike from Kent, but it's not like Northumberland....

The history of Boxley parish; the abbey, road of grace, and abbots; the clergy; the church, monuments and registers; including an account of the Wiat family, and of the trial on Penenden heath in 1076 (1892)

https://archive.org/stream/historyofboxleyp00cave#page/n7/mode/2up

A little light reading for us. :).

Barbara Mitford of Sedghill, to me, is a record mixup for two women of same name, and this error I'm about to correct on Geni is not from good compilations like "Plantagenet Ancestry," (even if PA did need updating;) the error in this case looks to me like tree builders.

Now where did Anna Cox or Cocke creep in ?

Also - have you been seeing references to 2nd son George as born 1622 in Jamestown Virginia? Which, if true, suggests Barbara and number 1 son (?) did accompany or join the Reverend in VA, perhaps passing on before the muster? The 2nd wife Elizabeth, died in 1626, is said to have had no (surviving children).

Ah - the error of Barbara Wyatt of Kent as daughter of Robert Mitford, of Seghill & Alice (or Alison) Mitford of Sedghill may have originated as a (since updated?) reference on Tracy Crocker's "Order of Charlemagne" site ... But I can't quite tell from the overview notes, which are good, but could (obviously now) use some reorganizing.

Tagging

Dan Cornett

/people/Dan-Cornett/6000000011723352447 as curator re: the surgery about to be performed.

Note the timeline and notes on this blog - who is the mother of Thomas born 1625?

http://sirthomaswyatt.com/2010/07/23/the-wyatts-in-jamestown/

1625

Thomas Wyatt is born to Reverend Hawte and Barbara. (Where? In Jamestown or England?)  Thomas only lives to age 7.

The Wyatts return to England. “In 1625 he (Hawte) returned to England with Sir Francis and helped settle their father’s  estate, and served as vicar of Boxley, Kent until his death July 31, 1638.”  http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dotsfamilypage/do...