V. Adm. Sir John Hawkins - Sea dog and horndog?

But .... But ... Geni says

V. Adm. Sir John Hawkins is my 24th great grandfather.!

Would Geni lie? :)

Feel free to slice off the not! Curated not Children by including an over view note, something like

Found as son of [Geni link] & [Geni link] with no supporting evidence, disconnected (date stamp).

I will curate 23rd great grandmother Elizabeth Sears, {fictitious person} born 1530, 2 years before our slave trader.

The private is now my 10th cousin x 13. The time warp is fixing. Somehow he became an ancestor of Peter Browne, "Mayflower" Passenger

A good trick.

There's also a false claim in Virginia - somebody claiming to be the son of Sir Richard Hawkins (he had a son by that name, who stayed in Devon) with a wife spuriously spliced onto an Eastern Shore family she didn't belong to.

Richard Hawkins, of Westmoreland County
Elizabeth Hawkins

[Sir] Richard and Judith [Hawkins] had 6 children: Judith born in Deptford in 1592 before he was taken prisoner; Margaret (1603); John (1604); Richard; Johan (1607); and Mary. http://www.devonheritage.org/Nonplace/History/AdmiralSirRichardHawk...

"Johan" is also written "Joan" and "Joane" in other documents, so that's 4 girls and 2 boys.

Five of the children - all except Judith - are mentioned in the wills of Sir Richard Hawkins and his wife: http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/RichardHawkins.htm

The story for Richard Hawkins (son of Sir Richard) from Findagrave.com pays lip service to the legend that he and/or members of his family emigrated to America, but admits that most of his life was spent in and near Slapton, Devon and that he is buried there: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=99220255

The Hakluyt Society doesn't mention daughter Judith - all in all, it looks as though either she is fictional or she died before 1622, maybe in infancy or childhood. Their Works, volume 57, includes much material on the Hawkins family, laying great stress on their residences and activities in England (frontispiece, particularly pages l-lii pertaining to descendants of Sir Richard).

You know what they say about "if it sounds too good to be true"!

Would love to find evidences to answer the questionable descent here:

1. Adm. Sir John Hawkins
2. Admiral Sir Richard Hawkins, MP
3. Capt. John Hawkins
4. John Hawkins, Esq., of Oxford
5a. Mary Lowe
5b. John Hawkins, of King William County

This is a commonly reported line. I've often thought this is a line "too good to be true" but I've never taken the time to look at the details.

Findagrave.com says John Sidney Hawkins stayed tied to Devon, probably not getting any farther away than Oxford: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=99163531

Connection with John Hawkins (Sr?) of Great Milton, Oxfordshire is obscure and based mainly on the datum that he used the same arms as Sir Richard Hawkins. Other verifiable information is very sketchy: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=189523.0 (This link raises the possibility that he might be a collateral relative.)

Be it noted that only the very wealthy and influential could afford to ship bodies back to England for burial in the 17th century - most people were buried where they died.

Specifically, John Sidney Hawkins attended Wadham College at Oxford University, and then returned to Devon. No comment on whether he left any wild oats growing in the Oxfordshire countryside.

I think this busts any direct link: "John, born in 1643, died and was buried at Slapton [in Devon], May 12, 1670. He appears to have lived in his father's house. Administration granted, May 12, 1671, to his sister Hester. The inventory of things in his room was a little over L100; clothes, L20." From "Plymouth Armada Heroes: The Hawkins Family" (1888) by Mary Wise Savery Hawkins - p. 163.

No wife, no children, no nothing.

Sounds like you're saying that John Sidney Hawkins of Slapton cannot have been the John Hawkins who married Mary Dewe and immigrated to Virginia. If so, that would be a very attractive place to cut -- maybe after creating a new profile for the real John of Slapton. I'm sure we could find a curator to MP them so they don't get merged again.

"Plymouth Armada Heroes" includes a long inventory of descendants (pp. 161-176), but never a mention of any of them ever setting foot in America anywhere. There is a mention of the elusive Judith as marrying one Tristram Sture, of Marridge House, Ugborough (which is in South Hams, Devon), but no date and no mention of any children. Found a record of his dying in 1616 "seized of the manors of Diptford and Ashwell" (The Antiquary, vol. 15, p. 116, column 1). Again, no mention of any children. I think it looks very bad for poor Judith. (Something went very nastily wrong with an attempted first pregnancy?)

These are e-books available free to anyone with a Google account.

Digging very, very deep divulged the information that in 1621 a Jerome Hawley - believed, but not proven, to be the same as the Jerome Hawley who was active in the early development of Virginia and Maryland - published a broadside:

To the honourable, the knights, citizens, and burgesses of the Commons House of Parliament : The humble petition of Ierom Hawley Esquire, for and on the behalfe of Phillip Sture an infant, the sonne and heire of Tristram Sture

I can't get at the text (it's behind paywalls and logins and the like), but it is "Concerning a dispute between Sture and Sir Miles Fleetwood over inheritance".

Since Philip Sture can't have been more than nine at the time, obviously Mr. Hawley was acting on his behalf. This connection is also obscure, leading to the as-yet unconfirmed theory that Judith Hawkins Sture survived her husband long enough to marry Mr Hawley. (Her absence from the wills of her father and mother suggests that she did not long survive the broadside, or had died by then.)

Another little blurb from the Calendaar of State Papers shows that sais Philip Sture became the ward of Mr Hawly and lived to grow up, marry, and presumably beget heirs:

September 10th 1633 Articles between Sir Edmond Fowell, Jerome
Hawley, Lewis Hele and Philip Sture, being a settlement made upon the
marriage of Mary Fowell, one of the daughters of Sir Edmond Fowell
with Philip Sture, ward of Jerome Hawley. It affects lands in the
parishes of Dipford, North Huish, and Ugborough, co Devon

All the names other than Hawley have strong Devon ties.The Virginia-Maryland Jerome Hawley was of Middlesex, and by 1633 was married to "Eleanor, widow of Thomas Courtney". In no record provably connected with him is Philip Sture mentioned, nor anything to do with Devon.

Oh my - relatives came piling out of the woodwork, including a whole family of Bastards. Yes, they are named Bastard. Go figure! :-D :-D :-D

Looks the Adm. was a favorite target for fictitious pedigrees

See this 1890 debunk of the Sears pedigree

https://archive.org/stream/descendantsofric1890mays2#page/6/mode/2up

Amazing, the wealth of knowledge that is available through the Internet! Of course, there's also humongous piles of disinformation....

From all the data that I've researched, I am the distant great grandson of Sir Richard Hawkins, and Sir John Hawkins. I have come across that either Sir John Hawkins or Sir Richard Hawkins was an illegitimate child or adopted. There are a few marriage indiscretions through out many royal families. DNA grouping is starting to prove that. It is amazing who we are all connected to. It really starts making the world a lot smaller place.

That would be Sir Richard. He was extramarital, later adopted and legitimated.

I've already pointed out a couple of booby-traps that people commonly fall into - hope you were able to avoid them.

I was Not related to Sir Richard Hawkins, but to one of his wives.

Katherine Elizabeth Hawkins is your 16th cousin 9 times removed.

http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Katherine-Haw...

Looks to me as though three different John Hawkinses have been spliced together:

1. John Hawkins 1643-1670, son of Capt. John Sidney Hawkins - no record of any marriage or children. He *very definitely* died before May 12, 1671, as his sister Hester was named administrator of his (small) estate on that date.

2. John Hawkins (c. 1640-1698?) m. Mary Dewe, of Great Milton, Oxfordshire. There is some question as to whether William Hawkins (1673–1746), barrister and serjeant-at-law, best known for his work on the English criminal law, Treatise of Pleas of the Crown, was a son of theirs.

3. John Hawkins (c. 1640-?) who married Mary somebody and emigrated to Anne Arundel, MD.

It's a popular genealogical game: "My ancestor's name was Willie Winkie, so he must have been *this* Willie Winkie" - and disproving it can be difficult.

They've been successfully sorted out (so far).

Erica, to date research has not uncovered his parentage or origins beyond Virginia.

I'm totally baffled on the when, where and to Whom, my Joseph Hawkins was born. He died 28 Sept 1770. His will states he had three sons, Joseph, Jr., Benjamin and Samuel. Only the youngest two daughters are listed, Mary and Elizabeth. It is presumed the two eldest daughters weren't listed as they were already married. Sarah Jane, the eldest was married to John Sevier. Rebecca the second daughter was married to Richard Campbell who later died in the Battle of Eutaw Springs. She went on to marry a man by the name of Pugh.

A gentleman, (a Hawkins cousin, in particular), has managed to open up a can of worms by asserting that Sarah Marlin wasn't the wife of our Joseph Hawkins. This leaves him with a conundrum as to how Richard Marlin fits into the picture, and why he would leave Joseph his land, "for natural love and affection." There doesn't appear to be any record of the marriage, but then again so far, there isn't a record extant, that I can find of John and Sarah Jaen's marriage, either. Should I state they weren't married?

So, I have to ask you, @Erica Howton, was this Sarah Hawkins a cousin of his, maybe?

I have to add that in my experience many children bearing the surname are attributed to the wrong person. For instance, Valentine Sevier, my 7th great-grandfather had seven children, total. They are as follows: John, Valentine, jr., Robert, Mary Polly; Catherine, Abraham and lastly, Joseph.

There is an Elizabeth Sevier, but she is the NIECE of my 7th great-grandfather, not his daughter. The same could and probably is being done with the Hawkins family. After all, there were so many Joseph Hawkins in and around the same general area all born between 1707-1720 that we know of, and it's entirely possible some descendants bearing the surname Hawkins got all tangled up in the weeds.

I found an excerpt from a piece written on the History of the Shenandoah Valley, including Frederic County. Under Hawkins is a paragraph, only. Apparently, it was so confusing they could only conclude that A Joseph Hawkins was associated with Davy Crocket, John Sevier, Lt. Col. Richard Campbell and someone else:. My memory won't allow that name to come forward. So, we shouldn't feel to badly about the confusion. But, if we all work together, maybe we can untangled this web? I do hope so. I'm so very frustrated.

@Erica Howton, just saw the record you shared! I also have a 'not a true record' with his year of birth being 1717. Yes, Sarah Marlin is touted and was accepted as the wife of my Joseph Hawkins, for a very long time.. In fact, I belong to the Marlin Family Page over at Facebook. One of them, upon my introducing myself to her and how I am connected with the family came back to say, "I have always known we were connected to John Sevier, but I never knew how! I'm working on the line hoping to find Richard Marlin in the branches.

Not only that but the cenotaph placed in Sarah Jane Sevier's memory next to where John Sevier is buried, is engraved with the names of her parents: Joseph and Sarah Marlin Hawkins. According to the Sevier family Historian, the D.A.R. went through an extensive research to verify these were her parents before the cenotaph was placed. From what I know, and hopefully Debra Denham can back me up, a great-great-granddaughter of Sarah Jane and John, made it a point to have John's first wife commemorated. She went to the D.A.R. for help. The cenotaph was placed on 3 June 1946, the 200th anniversary of Sarah's birth. (However, that same Hawkins relative doesn't accept the "not a true record' as a real source, nor does he find it significant. Face/palm. Many records from Virginia were lost and many records simply not recorded. Just have to read the marriage laws of Virginia in the 18th century to find this out. They are online. Doesn't help to find out that many records were destroyed during the Civil War, either. No longer extant. Sad face..