Marcomir of Toxandria, Frankish Chief - FATHER IS ?? de Toxandrie. Not Childeric!

There is no evidence, just later inventions. This website says one thing, but cites Wikipedia as its source, even though Wikipedia says something different:

"According to the author of the Liber Historiae Francorum , Marcomir was father of Faramond , who was father of king Clodion le Cheveleu . This genealogy, written over three hundred and thirty years after the fact, is recognized by contemporary historians as fabulous one . It was taken by the Grandes Chroniques de France that make Marcomir the son of a Priam Austria attached the line of Frankish kings to the kings of Troy according to the legend of the Trojan origin of the Franks."

This is a different Marcomir. You're adding new profiles in the wrong place.

Chronicle of Fredegar (7th century) says Chlodio's father was Theudemeres, one of the leaders of the Salian Franks and king of Thérouanne (409–414).

But, Liber Historiae Francorum (8th century) says Chlodio's father was Pharamond, perhaps a legendary figure, and Pharamond was son Marcomir.

No one gives Marcomir's father until 900 years after he died, when the Grandes Chroniques invented a whole line back to Troy!

@Marcomir, Frankish chief is my 52 grt grandfather Judy Rice

Today, Dec. 18, 2015 is the 100th anniversary of my father William Worden Allen so, on a whim I decided how far back I could go in his ancestry and found that I am the 58th great grandon on Marcomir of Toxandria, born circa 220. How credible is the research published by Geni?

William Arthur Allen, congratulations on your anniversary.

Geni is a software platform not a history text book, Geni gives it's users the framework to post what ever rubbish the users feel like putting on the internet. Some rubbish is more factual than others :)

It is uncommon for anyone other than royalty to be able to trace their ancestors earlier than the 1600s, royals can go back even further but the likelihood that an unbroken ACCURATE provable pedigree exists between yourself and Marcomir is less than your chance of winning lotto tonight.

None of that reduces the fascination of learning about these persons but take everything with a grain of salt.

"Cousin" or "Virtual Cousin" Alex: (I do not know which label for cousin should apply to us)
I see that Geni reports that you are my 21st cousin 8 times removed. See Alex Moes.

Thanks for your comment and advice about Marcomir of Toxandria, Frankish Chief. I have thought a lot about your comments and have started a new Geni project (Geni as Illusion) at http://www.geni.com/projects/Geni-as-Illusion/30589. I invite you to check this out and help us by expressing your opinion in our discussion. Thanks.

William (i won't use cousin at all for someone that a non-Geni user would not recognise as such).
I have joined your project and am following the discussion with interest, i wonder perhaps if you were not on a fishing trip when you posted your query last week?

No fishing expedition - just curious why so many people claim that data is inaccurate in a massive number of merge requests and what the reason for that might be. Like you I am following with interest the discussion points raised already. The participants have been very open and creative, often responding with much enthusiasm. Thanks for your caution, if I understand you correctly, about addressing Geni participants as cousins just because Geni provides the chain of relationships between us. It would be great to see you comment in that discussion about one or two issues raised to date.

My reticence to use the term cousin is not due to a concern of the accuracy of the path between us, rather what i feel is the greatest lesson that Geni can teach us is that we are all "cousins". So any Geni user who is connected to the World Tree is a 25th (or there abouts) cousin to every other Geni user who is connected to the World Tree. I feel that using "cousin" to address every random Geni user demeans the term, i have reconnected with cousins on Geni that i have not seen in 30 years and met some new 4th cousins never heard of before. My mental yard stick is that if i could not describe the relationship path to a stranger at a dinner party with out getting a queer look then it is not appropriate to use the term cousin.

So i acknowledge that technically we are all cousins but i dont see the value of using the term, we are all humans too but no one seems to see a need to point that out with every salutation :)

I realize this is an old thread, but I've come across a number of trees on MyHeritage that list Paulinus Quintus Anicus (200 - 280) as Marcomir's father. Is there any source for this claim? If so, how reliable is it?

Patricia Davis

hey, what do you think if Marcomir was agnatic progenitor of roman general Arbogastes and his uncle Flavius Richomeres ?

Marcomir is just a shadowy figure. There are guesses about his parents, but they're just guesses. The same is true of Bauto (father of Arbogastes) and Richomeres. Better to look at what contemporary sources say:

Sulpicius wrote, "At that time [388, during the rebellion of Magnus Maximus] under the dukes Genobaud, Marcomer, and Sunno, the Franks broke into the province of Germania. After forcing the frontier, they killed large numbers of people, ravaging the fertile districts in particular, and struck terror even into Cologne. . . . [Following plundering by the Franks, the Roman general] Arbogast was unwilling to countenance any delay and urged the emperor to exact just retribution from the Franks, unless they immediately restored all they had taken the previous year when the legions were cut up, and unless they surrendered those responsible for the war who were to blame for treacherously violating the peace . . . . A few days afterwards, a hurried conference was held with Marcomer and Sunno, petty kings (regales) of the Franks; hostages were demanded as usual and Arbogast retired to winter quarters at Trier." And later, "In the same year [392?] Arbogast, pursuing the Frankish petty kings Sunno and Marcomer with a kind of family (gentilis) hatred, came to Cologne in the depths of winter, knowing that all the retreats of Francia could be penetrated and burned now that the leaves had fallen and the bare woods could no longer conceal ambushes. He gathered his forces and crossed the Rhine, plundering the country of the Bructeri, which was next to the river, and the region inhabited by the Chamavi. He encountered no opposition. Only a few Ampsivarii and Chatti, under the command of Marcomer, appeared on the farthest ridges of the hills. . . . Then the usurper Eugenius undertook an expedition to the borders of the Rhine to renew in the usual way the old treaties with the kings of the Alemanni and the Franks and to show to the wild peoples an army of immense size for that time."

Thank you, Justin. I continue to try to suss out the "speculative" parts of my tree as accurately as I can, with the help of Geni's projects. But it gets discouraging as I run up upon my own limits in being able to find and translate original sources. So I appreciate feedback and clarification from you.

Flavius Richomeres is another ancestor whose information set off warning bells for me too and I'll keep an eye out for accurate info on him.

Somehow I've got the "Pro" designation beside my name in my post above. Could someone fix that please? I'm new to genealogical studies and learning all I can, but I'm light-years from being a pro at it and doubt if I'll live long enough to earn the title ;)

PRO indicates you have a paid membership on Geni. Nothing to do with skill levels :)

Thank you, Alex! It just looked so weird to see the word "PRO" anywhere near my name on a genealogical site...