Joel Carpenter - questions

I found it Mike.Oh by the way I mistyped not Sales but Searles. Close but no cigar!That was my error. Maybe now someone else will add to this.

I found the above info in various places including Ancestry and Find a Grave as well in a family tree. There is apparently a book out on the Carpenter family.

No longer a member but am thinking about rejoiningas soon as I can. I have some of their magazines.

In my opinion there is only one good source for the Carpenter family, it is quoted in the MP curator note

http://carpentercousins.com/carplink.htm

Accept no substitutes. It's state of the art geneology, and the MPs in the Carpenter line follow it.

Complete agreement with Erica. Zubrinsky is the Carpenter expert. FindAGrave, like so many other user-sourced websites, is riddled with Carpenter errors. Please don't let it read you astray.

In my Carpenter MPs, I try to explain exactly why competing theories cannot be accurate. I'll try to go through them later and see if I need to make any notes clearer.

Deacon William Carpenter is another Carpenter in that line who is consistently butchered on other sites. I did a *ton* of work on that profile about two years ago to try to clear it up, but confusion still happens because people follow old theories instead of the newer research.

There are several places William Carpenter is mentioned.It is noted that therre are more than one of them and they should not be confused with each other. I think more reserch is needed. remember any geneologist woth his or her salt doesn't take one reference as golden. They need at least three references to dec ided what is right and wrong.hat's three agreeing references!

Find a Grave was not the only reference quoted

I found in ref.
William Carpenter b. 1576 father of
William Carpenter b b 1605 snd wife Abigail Briant b 1604
Dea. William Carpenter b, 1631 d, 1703/4 buried Newman Cemetary , East Prov. R.I.

The Carpenters left Southhampton,England Mat 1737 on The Bevis. Passenger list included William Carpenter age 62 ,Willism Carpenter age 32 and Abiliogal Carpenter age 32, Plus four children under 10.

i have looked at the carpenter sources breifly erica ashley and judith i don't deny that they are well researched and i hate to say it but i both agree and disagree with you guys on this.. there is more then one valid source if you go the to web page judith.. allthough the web page has been updated as of feb this year the other sources are outdated with the exception of the The New England Historical and Genealogical Register and it makes no mention of travel from rhode island to vermont and caleb carpenter sr or at least that i could see at this point further reading and figuring from point a to point b is needed hmm...

. That tiny print on the document is a pain in the butt to read on a laptop with out huge glasses and that is what is slowing me down.. need to figure a way to enlarge it.. but that's my problem right now not yours..

Private please post a link to the specific profile on Geni you are questioning. Thank you.

Sorry - you mean this one I guess

Joel Carpenter
(Born 1802) & you want to source the parents?

Have you checked Vital Records of Massachusetts ?

Leads for VR of Rowe, in Franklin County, given here

http://ma-vitalrecords.org/MA/Franklin/index.html#Rowe

And of course you should be able to find him in census reports

i'm trying to figure out if Joel Carpenter is related to William Carpenter, of Rehoboth and that includes Caleb Carpenter, Jr. (JR http://www.geni.com/people/Caleb-Carpenter (SR) /6000000001130599346?through=6000000008076790911 and Edward Carpenter Benjamin Carpenter Joseph Carpenter and of course william who was allready mentioned.. are part of joel's maternal line or is this related to many of the various other carpenters durring that time frame.. I suspect it might be but not sure various people have claimed to me that that's not how it goes that it's part of many of the other carpenters from ma+ vt ri

found a document for daugther of caleb jr joel's father using your idea. Erica Howton but that's not exactly what i need right now... will post it in the morning.. plus will fix the link above.. just tried to click on caleb sr and realized it doesn't work

There's a book out called The Carpenter Family of America. In it it discuses the three Carpenter Families who came to America. Tried to photo it on here but couldn't gonna see if I can find it in the Lynnfield Gen. room.

Michael

What would help me understand your questions better is to take it parent / son relationship at a time - from the bottom up. We worry about the "immigrant ancestor" LAST. Maybe that will prove to be William of Rehoboth, maybe an entirely different direction.

So what is the parent / son Carpenter you're concerned with, the most RECENT?

There's a LOT of data conflicts to resolve! The information is in the overviews - can someone please go through the data conflicts and resolve them to match the overviews? No wonder it seems confusing when it shouldn't be!!!!!!!

Here's Caleb Carpenter, Sr.

His DAR record says
b 1742 Swansea MA (confirm with VR of MA if you can)
d 1810 Windham VT

Then what's he doing buried in Providence RI????

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=21484543

My guess is that the FAG researchers are mixing up 2 different Caleb's.

Which one are you?

Ya there are at least two Caleb carpenters.

Erica Howton I will ask erin pinder spiceland or another curator to look into dar reccords on that. as i don't have that much experience with them.. I will with your help and others start with joel and work my way down to william with the help of you and Private User Now I have the data only up to joel and caleb jr.. I think marvin and several others attached caleb sr some how thinking it was the correct match or when i got put on the huge tree it got added when some one colaberated with me I am going to refer to him as caleb jr so as not to get him confused with his (supposed?) dad.. this is where the line stops on the web page what is known from my history book and the website found on the douglas family which I have my dobuts about as some of the older sources are lds.. anyway Caleb Carpenter was born on 16 Sep 1769 in , Windham, VT. He died on 4 Apr 1848 in Louisville, St. Lawrence, NY. He married Mary Ballou. Caleb was counted in a census in 1786 in Guilford, Windham, VT. He was counted in a census in 1790 in Guilford, Windham, VT. He was counted in a census in 1800 in Halifax, Windham, VT. He was counted in a census in 1830 in Louisville, St. Lawrence, NY.

Mary Ballou was born on 18 Apr 1773 in , , MA. She died in Dec 1850. (death location not listed) She married Caleb Carpenter. Mary was counted in a census in 1850 in Louisville, St. Lawrence, NY.

They had the following children:

F i Cyrena Carpenter
F ii Lucinda Carpenter
F iii Polly Carpenter was born 1, 2 on 21 May 1799 in Rowe, Franklin, MA. She died 3 on 8 Sep 1803 in Rowe, Franklin, MA.
F iv Lydia Carpenter was born 1, 2 on 12 May 1801 in Rowe, Franklin, MA.
M v Joel Carpenter
M vi Tyler Carpenter
F vii Alona Carpenter was born 1, 2 on 18 Apr 1809 in Rowe, Franklin, MA. (sources

1American Genealogical-Biographical Index, Godfrey Memorial Library; Middletown, CT.
"Name: Caleb Carpenter
Birth Date: 175?
Birthplace: Vermont
Volume: 25
Page Number: 156
Reference: Heads of Fams. at the first U.S. census. Vt. By U.S. Bureau of the Census. Washington, 1908. (105p.): 49 Stat of Vt: Rolls of the soldiers in the Rev. War, 1775-1783. By John E. Goodrich. Rutland, Vt. 1904. (22,2,927p.): 268."

2David P. Slager, Jr., Fam. Gen. Researcher, http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=dpslager, Rootsweb.com.)

Late last night i found ref records on your hint that i should look into rowe records.. mentions of his daugther Cyrena marriage to a elton taylor.. Children of caleb jr and mary ballou Caleb Carpenter, Jr. basicly the same info i have is in the overview.. children are not added at this time.. we can deal with those later? I have yet to find sources for them anyway.. will create a note pad document of all that i need to look for and get back to you..

Now where was i oh yes... children of him and mary... (NOTE i did not see this when i checked.. only her mariage record will go back and confirm)
Rowe (Massachusetts). Town Clerk, Records of births, marriages, intentions of marriage, and deaths, 1774- 1848; Rowe, MA, Family History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah.
"CYRENE CARPENTER
Female
Event(s):
Birth: 08 JUN 1794 Rowe, Franklin, Massachusetts
Parents:
Father: CALEB CARPENTER
Mother: MOLLY."
died on 23 Aug 1880 in Louisville, St. Lawrence, NY 1850 records of st lawrence county prob census..
Lucinda Carpenter (going on the guess that most of his children were born in and around rowe i would guess if i dig deep enough in vr records i will find a notation that says 6 Mar 1796
Poly carpenter.. we'll need a photo that says died young if you can borrow that from some one.. 21 May 1799 to sept 8 1803
lydia and alona.. have no info on need to search vr records.. now Joel Carpenter I am going to take a little break and then come back later no need to add the kids in at this point one by one i will add the children once i research them first.. michael.

hang on.. i can check the dar records (profile id for the dar records is listed right on his profile. with out bothering another curator..
that way i will see if it's a match.. yes i have too seen that he was buried out side of providence ri on find a grave but i ignored that record at first because was unsure as judith put it verify from many sources not just one before you make a final judgement.

dar record appears solid but notes that he remaired after mary died so probley remarried after Elizabeth Wilson died so there are unverified and questionable step kids..

off to lunch back to research around 2 pm here.

Erica Howton Mike Stangel side note.. support for adopted children is a must.. think that feature has been in the pipe line for a very long time.. must be technicals behind the data entry you are working on before you roll out that feature..

Erica Howton Private User and others i am back.. enjoyed my ham and cheese egg sandwich break.. will check my tree and see if the rest of that line has any errors as written in my tree.. and a big thanks to fastine humpfries (sp?) or what ever fellow researcher (marvin maybe) for posting the dar id on profile of caleb sr that saved me a lot of searching.! I have primary or secondary sources for most of the line of william douglas as well 1588 onward but i don't have them ready to reveal just yet because i need to know what is official standards from you.. don't want to post anything that might be a problem how this all came about is i was going thru my notes taken from the website translating them and checking them against what geni had and some people looked at it and said no this isn't right it should be fixed and so on so i thought i'd ask a second opinion before i decided.. what exactly passes as valid for sources with you anyway? I know you've said that find a grave isn't allways truthfull and as i mentioned i have my dobuts about some lds.. Judith explained to me why u appear to act like a momma bear when it comes to your tree. i hear ya there.. have had people screw me over too crap like that happpens far too offen here for my liking and in some cases is encouraged.. i will not name names but that's just my opinion.. you feel up to some work later or should i sip my cofee and handle it ? as i don't want to mess things up I will wait til you give me the go ahead on some projects down the pipe line. joel's kids etc . getting quite a education on this line allready... laugh on a side note judith burns was quite helpfull showed me a work around or at least a good attempt at how to write a profile when the person is the adpoted child of some one.. really i think geni should make a effort to address that what do you think? anyway how ever i slice it i think my work will be in a two parter one with a list of names.. the other once i get a update on what is acceptable sources from you will be posted soon..

I think

1) I added the link to the DAR database
2) this suggests there might be also be an SAR record for Caleb
3) you could ask someone with an ancestry.com account to do you the very kind favor of looking for one there and sharing those image files on the Geni profile
4) it occurred to me that he could have died in VT but been buried in the "family" plot in RI. Tombstone images are good - what you need to be careful of is FAG "family links." Some researchers for them source their linking or quote from the tombstone inscription - those should be very good

erica.. found the dar record for caleb sr do you mean to see if his son is listed in that record as desendant?