The History of al-Tabari

Начал Harald Tveit Alvestrand пятница, 23 августа 2013
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23.8.2013 в 2:30 до полудня

I have bought a copy (ebook) of volume 2 of "the History of al-Tabari", based on some discussion about the children of Ham in another forum.

This discussion is where I can share quotes - only interesting if you're interested in Noah's descendants.

23.8.2013 в 2:32 до полудня

Page 16:

"As for Ham b. Noah, to him were born Cush and Mizrayim and Put and Canaan. One of the offspring of Cush was Nimrod, the one who ruled tyrannically in Babylon. He was Nimrod b. Cush b. Ham. The rest of Ham's offspring came to reside in the coastlands of the East and West, and in Nubia, Abyssinia and Fezzan. It is said that Mizarayim begat the Copts and Berbers and that Put journeyed to the land of Sind and Hind, where he settled; the inhabitants there are said to be his descendants."

23.8.2013 в 4:09 до полудня

As back story we're looking for the Muslim descent from Ham, son of Noah, from a reliable source, and this looks it

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/The_History_of_al-Tabari#Volume_II:_P...

23.8.2013 в 4:10 до полудня

Tagging Private User

23.8.2013 в 4:14 до полудня

By the way

The First Encyclopedia of Islam (1913-1936) page 948

http://books.google.com/books?id=fWNpIGNFz0IC&pg=PA948&...=...

in the Islamic tradition, Nuh (Noah) had 4 sons, not 3.

The 4th, the unbeliever, drowned in the Flood. His name was Kana'an, "whom the Arabs call Yam."

23.8.2013 в 4:17 до полудня

Here's a KJV Bible version to compare descent with

http://alkitab.sabda.org/passage.php?passage=kejadian%2010:6-20

23.8.2013 в 4:25 до полудня

Also tagging Private User who led me to the source

23.8.2013 в 4:29 до полудня

Hmmm this is odd

An early Arabic work known as Kitab al-Magall or the Book of Rolls (part of Clementine literature) states that Nimrod built the towns of Hadâniûn, Ellasar, Seleucia, Ctesiphon, Rûhîn, Atrapatene, Telalôn, and others, that he began his reign as king over earth when Reu was 163, and that he reigned for 69 years, building Nisibis, Raha (Edessa) and Harran when Peleg was 50. It further adds that Nimrod "saw in the sky a piece of black cloth and a crown." He called upon Sasan the weaver and commanded him to make him a crown like it, which he set jewels on and wore. He was allegedly the first king to wear a crown. "For this reason people who knew nothing about it, said that a crown came down to him from heaven." Later, the book describes how Nimrod established fire worship and idolatry, then received instruction in divination for three years from Bouniter, the fourth son of Noah.[6]

I thought the 4th son of Noah was Yam?

(6) KITĀB AL-MAGĀLL OR THE BOOK OF THE ROLLS.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/aa/aa2.htm

Private User
23.8.2013 в 3:42 после полудня

The Adnani Arabs have a tradition that they descend from Abraham's son Ismail. They are often referred to as "Arabized Arabs". Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) descends from this group. In this way, Jew and Muslim share a patriarch.

The Qahtani Arabs have a tradition that they descend from Nuh. the are referred to as "Pure Arabs". Qahtani people are divided into the two sub-groups of Himyar and Kahlan, with the Himyar branch as Himyarites and the Kahlan branch as Kahlanis. Please note that Yusuf duh Nuwas, King of the Himyarites, was a convert to Rabbinic Judaism, who married the daughter of a Gaon, in the 6th century CE. In this way, Jew and Muslim share a patriarch.

There is a third group of arabs referred to as "extinguishing Arabs"; ancient tribes who have a tradition predating Ismail and Nuh. For example, some of these tribes are known as Banu 'Aad, Banu Thamud, and Banu Yadi. So old are these tribes that we find thenm in early cuneiform tablets. The oldest known reference to Banu Thamud is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian king Sargon II which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians. The Banu Thamud are descendants of Banu Hud; when Banu Thamud perished it was Ghassanid Israelites (Adhani people of MIdian) who came into area.

There is a tradition among the old Arab tribes that Arpachshad had a son named Nimrod (Nimrod bin Arfakhshaad) whose dwelling was in the vicinity of al-Hijr. The significance is found in the fact that the Bahrani & Kuwaiti Arabs trace their ancestry to ancient Sumerian texts which attest to their existence in this area around 2200 BCE...and Nimrod being of their community. The Epic of Gilgamesh mentions the Bahrain region as "Dilmun"....through which Gilgamesh had to navigate in order to survive the deluge.

Nimrod, therefore, is a historical component of all three groups of Arabs but not all Arabs harbor a genealogical tradition which passes through Abraham or Ismail.

24.8.2013 в 2:39 после полудня

I could not find any further mention of Mizarayim in my Al-Tabiri copy beyond the note that said the Copts descended from him, so the further descent into Egypt can't be sourced to Al-Tabiri, it seems.

25.8.2013 в 1:28 после полудня

Adding a couple of google book links that discuss al-Tabari's work on Nuh's (Noah's) descent

http://books.google.com/books?id=DMskGHciORoC&pg=PA148&lpg=...

Sacred Tropes: Tanakh, New Testament, and Qur'an As Literature and Culture. Roberta Sterman Sabbath.

http://books.google.com/books?id=DMskGHciORoC&dq=Noah+and+the+a...

Interpreting al-Tha'labi's Tales of the Prophets: Temptation, Responsibility and Loss (Google eBook). Marianna Klar

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