March. Oberto Obizzo, conte di Luni - Display Name Correction

Private User

@ "March.Oberto Obizzo, conte di Luni is my 31st grt grandfather Judy Rice

We try not to use Wikipedia as a primary source on Geni. Instead, I would refer to MedLands.
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20ITALY%20900-1100.htm#_To...

He may have been the marchese di Milano, but we don't know this for sure. We do know that he was a marchese in the Eastern March and conte di Luni. As for his birth, if you can find the source for that Wikipedia article, I'd be happy to add it. I haven't found one myself.

Victar.....

I already had added the wikipedia article prior creating this discussion since the "about" section on this profile, fortunately, was not "LOCKED."

Please refer to Obizzo's "Overview" section on the first page of his profile.

Carla

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. If you can find a reliable source to his death, I'd be happy to add it.

If you have any issues, please contact me personally.

Let's see.....You now may count (1) Winkhaus' "Ahnen zu Karl dem Grossen und Widukind", (2) "Plantagent Ancestry", and the (3) "Encyclopædia Britannica" as "reliable" sources vetting the 15 October 975 death date.

Are these sufficient sources OR do you contest the validity of these sources as well? Do you require additional sources to correct the death date or are these three (3) adequate to your personal standard?

rsvp.....Carla

Private as a collaborative site there are numerous things that people to do agree on. Sources being one of them. However, if you want other users to see your point of view or work with you the tone you take when you make those requests will go a long way toward getting what you want. You can contact Victar directly to work toward a amicable solution. However, your comments are bordering on being a personal attack and personal attacks against curators or any other users will not be tolerated.

Private, thanks for bringing those sources to attention. You'll notice that the Encyclopædia Britannica article doesn't call him the Count of Milan, but rather the Count of Luni.

I hope you can understand that with the medieval tree, we're far more particular when it comes to sources because many genealogies and facts have been fabricated over time. There are a couple of projects here on Geni that try and address this.
http://www.geni.com/projects/Spurious-Pedigrees/10512
http://www.geni.com/projects/Fictional-Genealogy/8908

Back to the date of death, I found a book, Gerberto, scienza, storia e mito, that cites the work of Henry Bresslau as the source, "Fu Bresslau a trovare un atto del 15 ottobre 975, dal quale risultava l'avvenuta morte del capostipite obertengo.." I'll do some digging to see if I can find the primary source.

@Victar.....Please be advised that I'm a Chaucer scholar, a former college professor, and a Librarian and that you apparently have missed that my "Discussion" comment here today treats ONLY my great-grandfather's death date. As a professional Librarian, I probably could provide more sources for this date than any nonprofessional ever could locate, but that's not the point, is it?

I do not see this profile death date episode at the level of a PhD dissertation defense requiring primary documents, especially in light of the MANY geni.com Medieval profiles currently sporting Wikipedia bios. Moreover, I doubt highly that anyone/any entity would accuse the "Encyclopædia Britannica" of unreliability or of fact fabrication. Because this work is an academically acceptable citation source, it is perfectly acceptable as a geni.com cite.

So, "back to the date of death", kindly desist the stalling and print the date. Certainly, you've not provided any evidence for or been disturbed by the long existing, current citation of a birth date of "circa 975" and the name of my great-grandfather. Your position this week toward this profile since I have requested change is in complete contradiction to your position toward this profile during the past few years. Are you now going to remove both these entries and/or delete the profile to match your stated "we" particularities as no sources currently are provided or have been for years for those long LOCKED entries?

Further, since when and WHERE is it stated anywhere on geni.com that ONLY PRIMARY sources can be used to support data? Such a policy is NOT in evidence on geni.com. Additionally, review of geni.com profiles reveals that many secondary sources are in evidence and that many profiles cite NO sources at all--as has been the status of this one since prior yesterday.

So, really, what is the bottom line here, Victar? Kindly stop delaying the inevitable and print the date that has more than been vetted.

Thank you.


March. Oberto Obizzo, conte di Luni is your 28th great grandfather.

The following appears in the Overview “About” section on the profile of “Uberto, marchese di Toscana,” [ Uberto, marchese di Toscana ] where it states: “Curated by: Victar”. You might wish to review/edit this part of this profile:

About
edit | history

Oberto I Obizzo (also Otbert) (died 15 October 975) was an Italian count palatine and margrave and the oldest known member of the Obertenghi family. He was, by heredity, Count of Milan from 951. Otbert's father was Margrave Adalbert, about whom nothing is known apart from his name and title.

Soon after assuming the Italian throne, Berengar II reorganised his territories south of the Po River, dividing them into three new marches (frontier districts) named after their respective margraves: the marca Aleramica of Aleram of Montferrat, the marca Arduinica of Arduin Glaber, and the marca Obertenga of Oberto. This last division consisted of eastern Liguria and was also known as the marca Januensis or March of Genoa. It consisted of Tuscany with the cities of Genoa, Luni, Tortona, Parma, and Piacenza.

In 960, he had to take refuge in Germany. The next year, Pope John XII asked Otto I of Germany to intervene in Italy to protect him from Berengar. When Otto took control of Italy, Oberto was able to return to his lands, with the title of count palatine confirmed by Otto.

He was succeeded as Count of Milan by his sons Adalberto II and later Oberto II. His great-grandson Albert Azzo II, Margrave of Milan founded the House of Este; this makes Otbert the top ancestor of the House of Este as well as of its branches, the House of Welf and the House of Hanover. -------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otbert_I,_Margrave_of_Milan

Oberto I

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Oberto I Obizzo (also Otbert) (died 15 October 975) was an Italian count palatine and margrave and the oldest known member of the Obertenghi family. He was, by heredity, Count of Milan from 951. Otbert's father was Margrave Adalbert, about whom nothing is known apart from his name and title.

Soon after assuming the Italian throne, Berengar II reorganised his territories south of the Po River, dividing them into three new marches (frontier districts) named after their respective margraves: the marca Aleramica of Aleram of Montferrat, the marca Arduinica of Arduin Glaber, and the marca Obertenga of Oberto. This last division consisted of eastern Liguria and was also known as the marca Januensis or March of Genoa. It consisted of Tuscany with the cities of Genoa, Luni, Tortona, Parma, and Piacenza.

In 960, he had to take refuge in Germany. The next year, Pope John XII asked Otto I of Germany to intervene in Italy to protect him from Berengar. When Otto took control of Italy, Oberto was able to return to his lands, with the title of count palatine confirmed by Otto.

He was succeeded as Count of Milan by his sons Adalberto II and later Oberto II. His great-grandson Albert Azzo II, Margrave of Milan founded the House of Este; this makes Otbert the top ancestor of the House of Este as well as of its branches, the House of Welf and the House of Hanover.

[edit] External links

* History of Obertenga (in Italian)

This page was last modified on 27 April 2010 at 05:22. --------------------
Hubert, Duke of Spoleto, Margrave of Tuscany

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hubert or Humbert (Italian: Uberto; died 15 September 967 or March 970) was the illegitimate son of Hugh of Italy and his concubine Wandelmoda.

He was made Margrave of Tuscany by his father between 935 and 937, after the deposition of his uncle Boso.

In 941, he was made a count palatine and he was made Duke of Spoleto and Margrave of Camerino in 942 or 943, after Sarlione was removed for the murder of the previous duke, Anscar of Spoleto.

Hubert was, as ruler over Tuscany and Spoleto, the whole of central Italy, the most powerful vassal of King Berengar II. Hubert and Pope John XII invited Otto the Great, King of Germany, to cross the Alps and take the throne from the incompetent Berengar.

In 945 or 946, Hubert was removed from the duchy of Spoleto. On 13 February 962, he was removed from office in Tuscany.

He married Willa, daughter of Boniface I of Spoleto. She was the mother of a son and three daughters:

Hugh, margrave of Tuscany;
Waldrada, married Pietro IV Candiano, doge of Venice;
Bertha (Berta), married Ardoino I of Ivrea; and
Willa, married Tedald of Canossa. She was the founder of the church of the Badia Fiorentina, at Florence.