Carl Christian Bernhardi, SV/PROG - Parents of Carl Christian Bernhardi, SV/PROG?

Jansi I have this from one source - which makes my conclusion that these are the parents of both the Prog who were brothers, namely Frederik Jacob (SV1) and Carel Christiaan (SV 2)
Parents of above then Carl Christian Bernhardt(Bernhardi) and Anna Sara Welker. It might be a spelling mistake and she might as well be Walker but I will suggest we stay with Welker.

Carl Christian Bernhardt en Anna Sara Welker. Die twee stamvaders wat hieronder genoem word: Frederik Jacob en Caren Christiaan was broers
SV1 Frederik (Friedrich) Jacob Bernhardi v. Meisenheim i.d. Palts. Aank. 1759, soldaat. 1764 sersant en poshouer op Robbeneiland. Hy tree 1779 uit die diens. Burger 1780 (bakker), luitenant v.d, milisie. †27.1.1790. x 11.12.1774 Jacomina Greeff; xx 3.8.1783 Anna Catharina Victor, wed.v. Hendrik de Jongh.

SV2 Carel Christiaan (Carl Christian) Bernhardi
v. Mannheim, ­18.11.1757. Soldaat 1779-82, later assistent. Repatrieer in 1786, maar kom weer terug. †Paarl 20.8.1811, x 6.4.1788 Catharina Maria de Jongh.

Dan uit GR van Hoge: die volgendes.
BERNHARDI
CARL CHRISTIAN. - Mannheim. Son of Carl Christian B. and Anna Sara Welker. * 18.11.1757. So. 1779-82, assistant 1783-85, repatriated 1786, returned to the Cape and ~ 6.4.1788 Catharina Maria de Jongh. 7 children. + 20.8.1811 at Paarl. Cf. Friedrich Jacob Bernhardi. (GMR 1779-85; Rq. 1785: 62; Rq. 1786, p. 185; Res. 1786, p. 356; G.R. nr. 246.)

FRIEDRICH JACOB (S). - Meisenheim in the Palatinate. Brother of Carl Christian Bernhardi (q.v.). Arr. 1759 as so., corp. 1762, sergt. and postholder on Robben Island 1764, resigned 1779, b. 1780. A baker. Lieutenant of the militia, resigned 1788 on account of bad eyesight. ~ (1) 11.12.1774 Jacomina Greef; (2) 3.8.1783 Anna Catharina Victor, wid. Hendrik de Jongh. 6 children. + 27.1.1790. (GMR 1760-79; Rq. 1780:81; Rq. 1788:155; Test. CJ 1097: 54; Test. O.C. 29: 67; Inv. O.C. 75; G.R. nr. 246.)

GEORG (S Bernhardi and Bernhardt). - Westerburg. * 1728, arr. 1760 as so., farmhand 1763-67, b. 1767. Resident at Swellendam (1776). ~ 7.4.1776 Catharina Wilhelmina Thomas, wid. Johann Peter Becker (q.v.). Cf. Johann Nikolaus Teem. (GMR 1760-63; CJ 1149:43; CJ 1151:99; Rq. 1767-68:29; Test. CJ 1099:21.)

Thank you, Judi.

Yes, I've followed Hoge as to his parents and have quoted the excerpt you give above on his 'About me'.

Hallo Jansi

Op Familysearch is daar a doopregister inskrywing vir 'n Carl Christian Bernardi geb. 18/11/1757 sv Johann Henrich Bernardi en Susanna Margaretha (geen van genoem nie). Daar is helaas ook geen beeld van die doopregister beskikbaar nie. Die skakel is https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NCZV-BXJ

Groete, Louis

Dankie Louis!

Ek het gaan kyk - dit is die regte datum. Jammer dat die beeld nie beskikbaar is nie. Dit kom hopelik nog.

Dit kan natuurlik aan 'n ander Carl Christian B behoort wie nie na Suid-Afrika gekom het nie?

Dit lyk my darem na 'n te groot toeval. Twee Carl Chrisitan Bernardis gedoop op dieselfde dag in Mannheim van twee aparte ouerpare... Ek het verder na die informasie op Familysearch gekyk en die volgende samestelling gemaak vir die egpaar Carl Christiaan Bernardi en Anna Sara Welckers (ook genoem Welckerin of Wolkerin)

Carl Christian Bernhardi x 5 Nov 1722 Anna Sara Welckers (Welckerin / Wolkerin) te Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz (teenwoordig Rheinland-Pfalz)

Anna Engel Bernhardi ≈ 22 Sep 1723 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz † 24 Jun 1725
Johann Georg Bernhard ≈ 01 Feb 1725 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz
Anna Magdalena Bernhardi ≈ 09 Jan 1727 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz † 23 Feb 1729
Johann Henrich Bernhardi ≈ 24 Feb 1729 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz x Susanna Margaretha Hartmann * 13 Jul 1737 ≈ 15 Jul 1737 Evangelische Kirche, Mannheim dv Johann Peter Hartmann en Anna Catharina Bourque
Maria Charlotta Bernhardi ≈ 27 Mar 1732 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz
Johann Carl Bernhardi ≈ 06 Jan 1733 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz
Friderich Jacob Bernhard ≈ 02 Mar 1736 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz
Susanna Maria Bernhard ≈ 13 Jan 1739 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz

Ek dink dat hulle voorlaaste kind moontlik ons eerste stamvader is en dat hul tweede seun Johann Henrich Bernhardi x Susanna Margaretha Hartmann moontlik die vader is van ons tweede stamvader Carl Christian Bernhardi. M.a.w Carl Christian is dan die klein neef van Friedrich Jacob en nie sy broer nie.

Hier is ook nog die samestelling vir die egpaar Johann Henrich Bernhardi en Susanna Margaretha Hartmann

Johann Henrich Bernhardi ≈ 24 Feb 1729 Evangelische Kirche, Meisenheim, Pfalz x 24 Nov 1756 Evangelisch Kirche, Mannheim met Susanna Margaretha Hartmann * 13 Jul 1737, ≈ 15 Jul 1737, † 10 Jun 1767 Mannheim, # 11 Jun 1767 Mannheim. dv Johann Peter Hartman en Anna Catharina Bourque

Carl Christian Bernhardi * 18 Nov 1757, ≈ 18 Nov 1757 Evangelische Kirche, Mannheim
Johann Peter Bernhardi * 11 Nov 1759, ≈ 12 Nov 1759 Evangelische Kirche, Mannheim
Johann Henrich Carl Bernardi * 11 Nov 1761, ≈ 12 Nov 1761 Evangelische Kirche, Mannheim
Anna Rosina Bernhard ≈ * 20 Jan 1764, ≈ 20 Jan 1764 Evangelische Kirche, Mannheim

Maak sin. Friedrich Jacob B sou al in 1759 in die Kaap aangekom het wat meer lyk soos die vorige geslag.

Ek dink ons moet dit so verander as daar geen verdere bewyse aan die lig kom nie. Is daar beelde by enige van die doopinskrywings?

Helaas... Nog 'n goeie bron om te gebruik vir Duitse kerkregisters is http://matricula-online.eu. Ook hier helaas geen beelde vir Meisenheim of Mannheim. Ek is akkoord daarmee om die veranderinge te maak as niemand anders verdere bewyse het nie

Kom ons wag so 'n week of wat vir besware/verdere dokumentasie.

Dit lyk my Hoge het uit FJ se testament afgelei dat die twee broers was en dat sy ouers ook CC se ouers was.

Ek het die requeste opgespoor en ook die resolusie waarna Hoge verwys.

In sy versoek om te repatrieer meld CC dat hy moontlik sal wil terugkom aangesien hy 'alhier van syne nabestaande komt agter te laten' (http://databases.tanap.net/cgh/main.cfm?artikelid=24784&zoekwoo...)

In sy versoek om burgherskap meld FJ dat hy van 'Wijsenheijen' [Mijsenheijen?] (Leibbrandt transkripsie) is.

FJ se inventaris is hier http://databases.tanap.net/mooc/main_article.cfm?id=MOOC8%2F75.26&a...

FJ uit Uijsenheijn se VOC rekord http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1289406

CC uit Manheim se VOC rekord http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1079601

Niks werp egter lig op hul verwantskap nie. As hulle egter broers was sou hulle surely van dieselfde plek wees? En CC de oude het geen seun CC laat doop nie. Verder was al sy kinders teen 1739 gedoop. 'n Laatlammetjie in 1757 maak nie sin nie.

Mens sal seker die testament moet bekom om heeltemal seker te maak, maar ek is oortuig.

Ek stem saam Jansi. Carl Christian se terugvaart na die Kaap is ook op VOC Opvarenden : http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1393087. Op NAAIRS is daar ook 'n verwysing na sy testament : http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?201307031...

Miskien moet ons ook die bestuurders van Friedrich Jacob Bernhardi, SV/PROG, Carl Christian Bernhardi en Anna Sara Welker hierby betrek

Private, in die begin van hierdie gesprek het jy genoem dat sommige aangee dat CC se ouers Johan Hendrik Bernhardi en Susanna Margaretha Hartman is. Het jy enige bronne hiervoor?

Nee. Divon Mordechai Lan het die ouers so verander na aanleiding van 'n My Heritage boom, ook sonder bronne.

Ek het net die "Smart Matches" vanaf CC se profiel gevolg en nie een van die 6 profiele op My Heritage het informasie oor sy ouers nie. Ek neem aan jy het nie 'n betaalde subskribsie op My Heritage nie? Weet jy of enige iemand anders vir ons kan koekeloer?

Private User@divon, do you maybe have any additional information on the parents of Carl Christian Bernhardi, or do you have access to information on My Heritgae to could help?

Ek het 'n boodskap na Divon gestuur en toe antwoord hy dat sy bron iemand se boom op MH is.

Nee, het nie subskripsie nie. Naude Visser b2c12d1e3f10g1h8i5j2k4 het wel.

Hello Jansi.
Our minister in Darling Presbyterian church is Christopher Ian Bernhardi. He added a whole lot of profiles , bur they are private. He may know more about this. I will ask him. His emails address is
Ian Bernhardi [ianbernhardi@cornergate.com]
Best regards
Wilf

Hello Wilfred,

Could you please ask him to just make his deceased profiles public. It is such a tuff one with those type of profiles as we must merge or agree merges and can't.

Please
Thank you
Judi

Ek sal vir hom môre vra. Ek speel die orrel in die kerk :)
Baie dankie en groete

Wilf

Hello All.
Ian Bernhardi's ancestors' profiles are set as public now, and the merge into the De Jongh family tree is complete.
Best regards
Wilf

I have images obtained from the LDS Family History films of the parish registers for what is presumably the sister of Friedrich Jacob BERNHARDI and Carl Christian BERNHARDI, Charlotta BERNHARDIs 1731 baptism and her father's two marriages at Meisenheim. Her father Carl Christian BERNHARDI was the son of ("the late" as of 1716) Johann Heinrich BERNHARDI, and her mother Anna Sara WELKER was the dtr of Friedrich. I think both families were originally from Meisenheim, though Carl Christian may well have been baptized in the town where his father was Churpfaelzischer Amtkeller.
Maria Charlotte (Sharlotta) BERNHARDI married Christoph SCHMIDT and their son Ludwig Wilhelm SCHMIDT came to South Africa and married Carolina Petronella WOLHUTER.
If anyone would like copies of the following images, I could forward them to you or you could check the relevant LDS Family History Library films. My email address is stellasutherland@hotmail.com
Carl Christian Bernhardi wittwer HOCHZEIT 5 Nov 1722 Meisenheim EvangReformK FHL 475061
Carl Christian Bernhardi wittwer HOCHZEIT 4 Jun 1716 Meisenheim EvangReformK FHL 475061detail
Carl Christian Bernhardi wittwer HOCHZEIT 5 Nov 1722 Meisenheim EvangReformK FHL 475061detail
Maria Charlotte Bernhardi BAP 27 Mar 1731 Meisenheim FHL 475061
Maria Charlotte Bernhardi BAP 27 Mar 1731 Meisenheim FHL 475061detail

Dankie, Wilf!

Hi Stella

I will request copies of your documents by e-mail. Thank you!

Hello, The PROG of my South African family tree is Ludwig Wilhelm SCHMIDT son of Maria Charlotte (Sharlotta) BERNHARDI married Christoph SCHMIDT. If i could assist you with any information i would gladly do so. If you are able to provide me with relevant info on my German ancestors I would gladly appreciate it
regards
Brandon Schmidt
aquaholics@telkomsa.net