John CAROTHERS - John Carothers, 1736

Hugh Carruthers & Sarah Caruthers can't be correct. They were born after John.

FYI: the MH SmartMatches are not of great help: a couple list James, one lists a Hugh, and none identify a William.

Ah.... Looking at the Matches for Sarah Neely adds a bit of clarity ...

One MH tree identifies parents Robert Carothers & <private>. However, two others (different tree owners) identify Hugh Carruthers, Sr.(1747 - 1782) + Sarah Purviance(1710 - 1799) as parents. These are the same that have wife Sarah Neely's parents with some apparent reliability.

Not all are consistent, though: another couple of MH Tree has John's parents as James Carothers+M. Caldwell or Carothers (born Morrison).

There does seem to be some consistency that "John C. Carothers" had parents of Hugh Neely & Sarah Purviance.

There are two WikiTree matches to wife Sarah Neely-1727: one has John's parents as unknown, and the other has him as "Son of James Carothers and Esther Quigley".

... now I'm going looking for a John C. Carothers to see if that sheds any other insights ...

That Hugh & Sarah, Jeff, could just have incorrect dates ... something else to look at ... but a quick look at the ones originally connected as John's parents seem to have consistent dates with their surrounding profiles.

Note in my previous reply that Hugh1747 would be too young to be John's father (as Jeff said), but a 1710 Sarah Purviance could fit -- which got me looking at John's birth date alternatives, which range from 1725,26,27, 1730, & 1736. The 1736 doesn't work well with marriage and children's birth; 1725-27 is reasonable (and, by the way, would fit with a 1710 Sarah Purviance).

Looking for James Carruthers ....

perhaps this would also help a bit

http://www.geocities.ws/longwellgeneology/volume43.txt

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncschgs/carothersfam.htm

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&amp;GRid=42608331

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/i/l/Lisa-Williams-18/W...

http://www.smokykin.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I7142&amp;tree=s...

Thanks, Ofir ... will look at those ...

Having looked at them:

1) (geocities) seems to indicate a father Robert, but not much to go on.

2) (rootsweb) nothing about parents

3) (findagrave) seems to be a different John Carothers: birthdate too late & rather different death date. **However** that does seem to rule out parents of William & Joan as they would be too young for this John, particularly with a 1725-27 birth date. So, that is helpful to possibly eliminate the currently-attached 'William-1714' as father.

4) (familytreemaker) This one looks like what much of this is based on -- except that when one starts looking at timelines: If John was born in 1739 and married in 1748 -- that's at age 9 and first child at age 11. And that 1748 marriage is the 3rd marriage? It is unlikely ... and calls into question the dates of the parents of John as well ( William Carothers-1714 and Jean-1718 ). Examining the Source listed for all the parts of that family, it is a "One World Tree" database from MyFamily.com (LDS).

5) (smokykin) This one has similar relationships to #4, but doesn't assign birth dates to John nor his parents William & Jean. It does provide a birthdate for John's sister Margaret as 1702 ... which is quite a bit earlier than a 1725 birth for John, but not unreasonable if Margaret was a half-sister (as one of the others implied).

#5 has wills for both William & Jean, making this the best reference so far that John's parents are William & Jean.
http://www.smokykin.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I7140&amp;tree=s... - William
http://www.smokykin.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I7141&amp;tree=s... - Jean

Aside: That sister Margaret marries a William McTeer and the children are listed as Mateer.

Keep in mind there were lots of Neelys and Carothers who immigrated to America during various times in this era ... and they tended to have large families (many came from the Ulster region and settled in New York as well as Pennsylvania, then migrated south and west).

That #4 has an alternate birth data of 1730; I've changed that for John (for now).

#5 has a problem with Margaret ... the 1702 birth date is way off from the listed dates of husband (1738) and children (1760-1780). Geni profile has 1738, and that is reasonable, albeit old for Jean.

I'm about ready to cut James as the father ... though I'm first looking for a place for him to 'land' (it'll be driftwood otherwise).

The grandparents of William are also a bit old ("long in the tooth" as the saying goes) ... maybe a missing generation?

unless we're talking about really famous people; usually when I'm looking for online info I tend to look more at death dates years than marriages or births

in this case the find a grave website looks pretty reasonable

I do agree that it looks like some incorrect merges were made

My subsequent looking at link #5 actually makes the FindAGrave more possible, but that birthdate certainly doesn't work for marriage & children! The actual death date is a bit muddled, too, as some seem to confuse the Will dates (first witnessed, updated, & 'proven' dates) with death date. (John's will is posted on his About).

FindAGrave mother of Joan vs. Jean is an easy mis-reading, particularly of handwritten script.

re: marriages ... I don't know where this particular Carothers/Neely marriage date came from, but I do know the Neely's in America had a strong tradition of recording such details in various family Bibles; the Neely marriage dates are usually reasonably accurate.

I'm not saying that other dates are not accurate or not recorded
I meant that in general , I find that death dates/ years are more helpful when you try to search for info, not to mention if you do a Geni search

:-)

Dan, if you decide James is not the father, then I would suggest merging him with who you decide (i.e. William), so that the manager of James gets added to the proper parent. Having a single profile as driftwood doesn't seem to make much sense to me - I'd just merge it and resolve conflict.

Good suggestion, Jeff ... after I look to see if there is another 'James-father-of-John' from the same time-period! (which is very possible). In any case, the list of managers should be looked at.