John Hyrcanus I / יוחנן הורקנוס הראשון ben Simon Hasmonean, Ethnarch & High Priest - Name of 5th son

Justin Durand Hmmmmm, very interesting! Perhaps even without immediate evidence, this connection ought to be left for the time being at least (with a note attached) because as we all know there is a tendency by those in power to "whitewash" history, and maybe that is what happened to Hezekiah.

Agreed, Malka. Provided, of course, that it's not a modern invention and it's consistent with known facts ;)

So far all I'm finding for this connection are imaginative reconstructions by modern conspiracy theorists.

If we can find even one ancient or medieval source, I think we'll be justified in leaving it.

Justin Durand Your statement that "The Jewish historian Josephus said that John Hyrcanus had five sons, but Josephus only named four of them" is intriguing and telling. Josephus had to play a very delicate diplomatic balancing act---what he leaves out is often just as important as what he says.

Hmmm. What would it mean to become the Black Sheep of a rebel family?

I hope you're not suggesting he might have been a merchant who thought war was bad for business ;)

If we're talking bets, mine is that whoever Hezekiah was, he wasn't a Herodian. That would have been a scandal too great to suppress.

Since we have no objections, it's safe enough to leave this for now, pending further research.

Justin Durand Oral history and tradition is sometimes all that remains because of the utter destruction of ancient works by conquerers, so records from this pivotal era are scarce, cryptic and obscure. eg.

The Ancient Library of Alexandria, repository of all the world's knowledge at that time,and home to the great scholars of the day, seems coincidently to begin experiencing trouble starting around 145 BCE when Ptolemy VIII expelled all foreign scholars from Alexandria!

The Library was then partially destroyed in the Alexandrian War by Julius Caeser in 48 BCE by fire, plus the attack of Aurelian in AD 270 – 275; the decree of Coptic Pope Theophilus in AD 391; and the Muslim conquest in AD 642 or thereafter.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction_of_t...

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_book-burning_incidents

* http://www.amazon.com/Universal-History-Destruction-Books-Modern-da...

PS. Re your question above, I guess a Black Sheep in a rebel family would be impelled to sainthood, as two negatives turn to positive :)

I have added the two Josephus references regarding a fifth brother who competed with Alexander Jannaus for the throne. We have nothing of a name.

Josephus, War of the Jews, Book I, Chapter 4.1
"AND now the king's wife [Salome Alexandra] loosed the king's brethren, and made Alexander [Jannaeus] king, who appeared both elder in age, and more moderate in his temper than the rest; who, when he came to the government, slew one of his brethren, as affecting to govern himself; but had the other of them in great esteem, as loving a quiet life, without meddling with public affairs."

Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book 13, Chapter 12.1
". . . after the death of Aristobulus [I], he [Alexander Jannaeus] certainly took the kingdom; and one of his brethren, who affected the kingdom, he slew; and the other, who chose to live a private and quiet life, he had in esteem."

Thomas, I think it's been long enough to change the name to NN 5th son. Do you agree?

There also seem to be no Sources for his purported sons: Joiadah ben Hezekiah and Judas. Is this just part of a fictional line to Mary Magdalene?

Who is the creator of this fictional line of Mary Magdalene? Are there sources for it?

So, here is a website that is purporting a genealogy of Mary Magdalene, going back to a Hezekiah, son of John Hyrcanus:

http://www.prieure-de-sion.com/4/genealogy_of_jesus_and_mary_860930...

They have a PDF that gives the genealogy:

http://www.prieure-de-sion.com/4/upload/ancestors_of_mariamne_la_to...

They state that it is based on oral traditions. The group was formed in 2015, though they claim a previous founding around AD 1000. I saw nothing on ancient sources.

Sharon, I think that NN seems well, then leaving the name Hezekiah in the notes as you have to invite discussion. We know that John Hyrcanus did have 5 sons according to Josephus, with details on each given, so it seems that this son and associated sources and thread should be preserved.

If somebody has other sources on these lines, even if from Medieval origin, it seems they would be valuable to the discussion.

I've isolated it. It seemed to be one of the Holy Blood Holy Grail ilk.

Can you elaborate any on the "Holy Blood Holy Grail ilk" comment, or are you just referring to the book and its following?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail

To clarify here. John Hyrcanus does have five sons that are verifiable in Josephus (I have added the sources for this son on the sources page). Four of these are specifically named: Judas Aristobulus I, Antigonus, Alexander Jannaeus, and Absalom. The fifth is said to contend for the throne and is killed by Jannaeus at the beginning of his reign, thus about 103 BC; though Joseph does not name him.

Further, we know that Absalom outlived the others, and that Herod's wife Mariamne descends from him. So as I said before, we do know that this person is valid and should be kept. What we do not know, is whether or not the name Hezekiah is documented somewhere or whether it is fictional.

Thus, as I mentioned before, let's leave the name Hezekiah in the Overview notes, for discussion purposes, and I like that you have NN as the first name for now.

Yup - the book. Great fun as fiction. It IS the oral tradition, though :-)

I've disconnected both sons, pending sources - the other son appeared to be an attempt to create a fantasy line to Hannah / Anna.

Private User see our HBHG project: https://www.geni.com/projects/Holy-Blood-Holy-Grail/13978 by our resident expert, Justin.